I'm aware of the Mt. Cashel orphanage, but " The boys of St. Vincent" still had to be heavily fictionalized/made composite or they would have just called it "The boys of Mt. Cashel". I'm in agreement that the pope almost certainly knew about abuse, but I don't know if a meeting in 1967 proves anything.  Getting an invitation is not the same as attending.  Making accusations or broaching a subject for the first time is not the same as proof or "full awareness."  THE PRECEDING STATEMENTS ARE NOT EXCUSING WRONG DOING, but it would be just as if is someone said to me "State employees are crooked."  Yeah, there are 30,000 of us and I'm sure one or two are crooked. It would be very difficult for me to accept after working there 25 years that MOST state employees are stealing.  (even if most state employees actually did steal.).

Raph - Are you saying since Churches hoard wealth, you are going to donate your entire income to help the poor and live in a tent? Since religion upsets you so and it is corrupt, are you going to leave England and move to a deserted island? Or another solution:  Are you saying since all religion should be banned, that people who are religious should be deported to their own country?  But then since it should be banned completely according to you, should religious people be done away with somehow? –------------- Now you didn't say any of those things, except taking your religious ban to the extreme, what would be done with Churches and religious people? But that is what you're doing to me (for example)  when you say "the philosophy teacher defends the Church hoarding wealth."  Actually I didn't defend hoarding money and don't defend it, but many have called for the Church to sell off all its art treasures and give the money to the poor. And I ask again - how long would poverty be alleviated EVEN IF the Church did that?  Not long, since wealth is primarily concentrated in the hands of individuals and corporations. But really, I don't mind you attacking the Church for being "obscenely wealthy" but do you think they have MORE wealth than Bill Gates?  Warren Buffet?  Do you have as much or more outrage at them?  Or better still, what is it specifically that bothers you about Churches accumulating wealth?  (as long as it is not via the taxpayers?)  Or excommunication?  Belonging, at least in the 20th and 21st centuries is completely voluntary. I NEVER said, to quote you, that people who disagree with me are "unwashed immoral losers"  and I have stated emphatically that I DO NOT think governments should give taxpayer money to Churches.  I even stated a reason - that the Church risks government control when taking government money.  But you STILL say "your side …is against separation of Church and State" You really have stretched me out of context when you ask if Irans' government is superior to the USA.  I never said that.  I never said relgious governments are preferable. Ok, I think I"ve made my points and if you think I haven't please bold the exact phrases from my writing to prove your point or I can't discuss this any further.

okay.  i just think that abortion is only allowed under highly specific extenuating circumstances but everyone's entitled to their opinion

Hahahahaha… Well, what can we seriously expect from airheads? On the other hand it also sadly reflects on the state of education and on a not so small part of the US population. And it will get much worse if Obama gets voted out next year by exactly these people... back to the Dark Ages... :afr:

It's wonderful to see people, after years and years of living in a dark and ignorant world of faith and religion, opening their minds to see the world fresh and anew — bathed brightly in the sunlight of Reason and Knowledge — and coming to it better late than never. ;D

true that

Thanks for sharing. I really liked most of citations

i still think itwould have been humane to allow the family their time to mourn.

@fancydude: Further, to say the Catholic church has demonized human sexuality unmatched by any other institution - it might even be true - but the world is a big place and several millennia is long time - you must indeed be the font of all knowledge to make that claim! I don't need to. You made that claim for me, just a few sentences prior: @fancydude: There are few institutions as large as the Catholic Church with as long a history to compare it to. And then there is this gem: @fancydude: I don't understand it, can't explain it and don't excuse it. Well you got 2 out of 3 right. But please do continue to post in other areas, as I truly appreciate the spirited debate!  As far as going on tangents as one poster said, I think that's the beauty of forums – and that we're all adults here who can handle the road, wherever it takes us.

In a real sense, I think it's just a rare opportunity to help that actually makes things worthwhile.  So we should recognize it when someone helps us, and even better if we recognize an opportunity to really help someone else.

I wonder when our local priests will pick up on this.  I've never heard of it, until today.  I'm glad there's a forum for these things!!!

Actually, I think he probably did notice.  Now Gays are a tiny minority compared to other groups, but the Church does respond over time.  Women are lectors, girls are altar servers (altarboys) and not much is said.  They wouldn't dare, in USA anyhow.  The donations would drop off too much and there would be too much protest.

He actually predicted that the world would end no earlier than 2060, stating "This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fanciful men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, and by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail."  I quite like his way of thinking  ;D

ah… i guess i have to reread that chapter again... i may have misread the meaning. The hazards of reading the bible like a storybook  >:D

LOL i love this news!!! so, catholics are size queens? LOL