Nature not nurture…........................

As the "unwashed immoral loser" it's not my job to help the needy, even though I do.  I'd be willing to bet that IF your side were honest and opened their books, we'd see that I give a larger portion of my income to help the needy than churches do. Religious people need to learn that we are all atheists, just that some of us believe in less gods than others. Religious people need to understand that there are others on the planet as well, but they tend to forget that or worse. ++++ Ok, so you and your philosophy teacher think that instead of trying to help people, the Vatican should just hoard the wealth. We'll never know exactly how much the RCC et al has, because it's broken up into mini sub corporations and they aren't exactly open and honest about such things. However, we do know just a tiny fraction of the money they have because we know at least some of the money the church's Philippines branch has from the line I posted earlier. The difference between Bill Gates and Warren Buffet is that they aren't trying to claim the moral high ground.  However, both Warren Buffet and Bill Gates give away huge chunks of cash every year. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates doesn't hate you, but your church does. Churches should pay taxes as they use the nation's infrastructure. It's another example of them using and giving nothing back. "Unwashed immoral losers" is in reference to non believers, not people that disagree with you. Churches haven't lost control to government by taking taxpayer money.  In fact, the government, due to being full of believers, is pandering to churches and allowing them to use taxpayer money to fund their hate. Your side (believers) are doing everything in their power to destroy the separation between church and state.  The first clue is GWB creating the so called "faith based initiatives" giving churches money to fund their hate.  I'm sure you can find countless examples of believers doing everything in their power to destroy the separation of church and state.

I'm aware of the Mt. Cashel orphanage, but " The boys of St. Vincent" still had to be heavily fictionalized/made composite or they would have just called it "The boys of Mt. Cashel". I'm in agreement that the pope almost certainly knew about abuse, but I don't know if a meeting in 1967 proves anything.  Getting an invitation is not the same as attending.  Making accusations or broaching a subject for the first time is not the same as proof or "full awareness."  THE PRECEDING STATEMENTS ARE NOT EXCUSING WRONG DOING, but it would be just as if is someone said to me "State employees are crooked."  Yeah, there are 30,000 of us and I'm sure one or two are crooked. It would be very difficult for me to accept after working there 25 years that MOST state employees are stealing.  (even if most state employees actually did steal.).

Thanks for the information Spintendo.  :cheers:

I've been around plenty of straight men long enough to know that their minds are as cemented in the gutter as ours are. The only difference is that with heteros, it all depends on the female. If she won't put out, it's Mr. Hand that does the job. Just sayin…

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Thank you Spintendo for this most informative article. We too easily forget these countries and think we have it the worst in the world for Gay Rights.