FlavaWorks is suing 325 gay-torrents.org users. You maybe one of them.
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https://torrentfreak.com/porn-producer-targets-members-of-gay-torrent-site-in-court-251104/
They also tried to sue this pvt torrent tracker too
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@cp2000 well over 300 of their users are being sued so it wouldn't be sensible to keep the site open
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Hi, as per what we were told the situation is actually worse in terms of what FW might have one to get this info, it was believed they hacked into one of the mods accounts as to get it since they have no other way to access it, plus the old "thanks" to know who downloaded what, also they can't access the information of seeders/leechers, as it happens here, unless you are an admin.
I don't know what happens if you live outside the US, as it is my case. All this said, I don't believe it will be that easy for them to follow up with any of us, especially as what @ianfontinell since I never cared for their material either.
Sorry I can't be more specific but I would rather be safe than sorry.
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https://torrentfreak.com/porn-producer-targets-members-of-gay-torrent-site-in-court-251104/
They also tried to sue this pvt torrent tracker too
This one is particularly interesting because it was a Canadian who they went after. See, Canada has what we call the "Notice & Notice System". When your IP address is identified in the peers pool, it was ruled in the case of Voltage Pictures Inc v TekSavvy Solutions that an IP address alone is insufficient to warrant the disclosure of the subscriber information as an IP address alone does not prove the physical device that was used, that the end user of said physical device is the service subscriber, or even that the physical device was actually physically present at the service address of the subscriber (thanks to things like WiFi).
The only thing they can do for the regular downloader pirates in Canada is send their ISP a cease and desist notice, which then gets forwarded to the subscriber. They are given a chance to first cease the infringing activity, and if they comply, no further action can be taken. It is only if the service subscriber is made aware of the allegations and fails to act to stop the infringing activity that either any action can be taken, or that the subscriber information can be revealed to the copyright holder. Also, for lawsuit purposes, the IP address alone was ruled in the same court ruling to be insufficient evidence to prove that the content was downloaded in its entirety, or was shared to other users.
Now after reading that article, it seems that the Canadian in question was identified by the unique watermark on the content, which linked to their paid account on the site, which is a whole different ball of wax, as this information most definitely IS sufficient evidence to prove not only the tie to that particular person, but also prove that the content was distributed in its entirety.
I'd be really interested in seeing if any of the other "John Doe" users in that claim are Canadian.
The only difference between martyrdom and suicide is press coverage! -
Hi, as per what we were told the situation is actually worse in terms of what FW might have one to get this info, it was believed they hacked into one of the mods accounts as to get it since they have no other way to access it, plus the old "thanks" to know who downloaded what, also they can't access the information of seeders/leechers, as it happens here, unless you are an admin.
I don't know what happens if you live outside the US, as it is my case. All this said, I don't believe it will be that easy for them to follow up with any of us, especially as what @ianfontinell since I never cared for their material either.
Sorry I can't be more specific but I would rather be safe than sorry.
I don't know about in the USA, but in Canada, a simple thanks on a torrent is insufficient to take any action on as a simple thank you does not prove that the user downloaded the content in its entirety, or that the user shared the content with other users (again, see Voltage Pictures Inc v TekSavvy).
I'm actually rather glad that TekSavvy decided to fight back and fight back HARD when Voltage tried to take them to the cleaners a few years back, as it set a number of precedents for our court systems that gave substantial protections to Canadians. One of these precedents that was set was that they have to prove the identity of the end-user of the device, OR have to prove that the service subscriber was aware of the infringing activity and failed to act in a way that ceased the activity in question.
So with the Notice & Notice System, it is a bit more difficult to go after users in the Canadian courts, and pretty well ALL cases since this landmark case have been the result of user stupidity, usually because they got the cease & desist notice, but failed to stop the infringing activity by the end of the deadline.
The only catch to the Notice & Notice System is that if your ISP receives too many complaints (as is determned by your ISP as no precedent has yet to be set on that), your ISP may reserve the right to terminate your service and refuse any future subscription. A VPN however will get around this though, as it will make the VPN IP show in the peers pool, rather than your actual IP address, so it keeps the identity of your ISP out of the equation.
The only difference between martyrdom and suicide is press coverage! -
I'd be really interested in seeing if any of the other "John Doe" users in that claim are Canadian.
At least one that I know of from the forum, K3yb04rd, is Canadian. They have decided to mention in the lawsuit every single member who posted in that one FW thread regardless of IP/geolocation.
They must be really confident in what they're doing if they keep insisting on bloating their lawsuits with useless data as "evidence"
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@ianfontinell Either that, or they're blissfully unaware of the precedents that have been set by TekSavvy in the Canadian courts. They can throw his IP address around all they want, but an IP address is insufficient proof of identity for the previously mentioned reasons.
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This is actually big news and I think it should concern some users here who are also now likely ex-members of gay-torrents.org.
The site has been down for 2 days now and looking at the reporting it doesn't seem like it will come back. In a nutshell Flavaworks is suing the operators and mods of the site who were financially benefited by running the site, plus 325 users who were found to have uploaded and shared their videos.
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/flava-works-goes-nuclear-in-new-piracy-6951261/
As of now not all documents are publicly available for free. But if anyone has access all the documents and exhibits, including the list of usernames included as defendants, can be downloaded from PACER:
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/64366446/FlavaWorks_Entertainment,_Inc_v_Deniau_et_al
From what I have just read Flavaworks has been launching a lot of copyright infringing cases and this new case will likely be watched by other producers if they're successful in extracting damages from users like us.
Some of you should get prepared, especially if you're in the US. They only know the usernames now and usually they will include as many as you could find at this stage. They may also know the email and IP addresses. It is however not difficult to track you down.
Anyway if anyone has access to PACER please download the documents and share.
The full lawsuit with the users' names can be accessed here, it is quoted in a link within the piece: https://torrentfreak.com/flavaworks-sues-operator-and-325-users-of-private-torrent-tracker-gay-torrents/
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@MrMazda So are you'll saying that I should turn my VPN on when i'm downloading the torrents and seeding it ? or just when I login to the site? ISP can terminate your services but will they do that what's the benefit for them to cancel your services? they also want your business and also if this ISP cancel your services then apply for another ISP - many year ago back in 2000s I got send an email from ISP to my ISP inbox - saying that movie studio found I downloaded a pirate movie cant recall was it via torrents or those zip file website - and its just a warning - because I don't reside in USA and there wasnt a rule back in where I was reside to actual do anything about it
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@harry76 For your ISP, it becomes more of a legal protection. No ISP wants to be known as the ISP that allows copyright infringement on their network. In the case of a user who gets a multitude of requests, this obviously increases the risk that the copyright troll can start litigation against the provider for allowing such activity on their network.
I personally do not use a VPN when logging into the site just to browse or use the forums, however on the machine that I use for the actual torrent traffic, I absolutely use a VPN. I know that in the DPI state of Canada, my ISP can most definitely see what I'm doing behind the VPN, however it is not my ISP I am worried about. It's more of a protection so that nothing attaches my actual IP address to any torrent traffic so that my actual IP address does not appear in the peers pool. This way, my ISP can most definitely still see what I'm doing, but potential copyright trolls cannot tie my identity to any specific torrent.
The other added benefit of using a VPN is that if I do hit on a torrent that is being monitored by copyright trolls, they'll have to approach my VPN provider for further information, however my VPN provider has a strict no logging policy, so they are not able to disclose information that they do not actually have. This saves me from having my ISP account tied to any of the torrents I may have active at any given time, which both protects me from being tied to the torrent, and also stops my ISP from receiving any potential notice.
It is generally assumed that although in a DPI state such as Canada that the big players to the market can see what kind of traffic you have going even through the VPN, they typically do not give a damn what you're actually doing, as long as they don't have copyright holders knocking on their door with infringement claims.
That said, depending on where you are in the world, it may be a wise idea to use the VPN even when logging into the site, just to make sure that even the sites themselves cannot tie your actual IP address to your account. This is particularly helpful if the security of the site or its staff are compromised somehow. A person may be able to tie the VPN IP to different torrents, and may even be able to tie your VPN IP to your account, but if they are not able to sniff out your actual IP address, then the link they need to get your subscriber information is missing, thereby making the VPN IP address a dead end (assuming that your VPN provider has a no logging policy).
The only difference between martyrdom and suicide is press coverage! -
We all should be very careful, just saying, they are reading forums trying to get more information. By now the ludicrious lawsuit is going to target users from their site whose email matches the ones in gay-torrents.org. There is a theory behind how they got this information but I cannot say more for the time being, TorrentFreak also hints the same. You can all connect the dots on your own.
The site owners are going to pay the price, or at least some of their assets will. The web is not coming back, ever, but at least the owners were able to protect a lot of the users by going dark when they did. "Thanking" someone from a torrent should not be done as it's pretty much an admission of guilt.
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@jkronfuss said:
"Thanking" someone from a torrent should not be done as it's pretty much an admission of guilt.No it's not, unless you live in the US where justice is just an arbitrary concept.
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The biggest, and most interest part, about this updated lawsuit is they needed to acknoweledge they got their information in an indirect way, the site was going through a lot of hacks last year, and there is zero way for them to get any email from users unless you are either and admin or an owner. There is a reason why this information is always hidden in most places.
I don't know whether that is allowed in a court given the way it was obtained. We shall see how it goes but yes, it's arbitrary and they are basically trying to go all the way into this lawsuit and nail as much people down as possible.
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@jkronfuss i warned sysop that the fw ceo had contacted me in the email address i used in their site, so he was 100% aware that there was a breach in their opsec. How easy it was to ID him just showcases how reckless and unprepared he was for someone in his position.
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@jkronfuss said:
"Thanking" someone from a torrent should not be done as it's pretty much an admission of guilt.No it's not, unless you live in the US where justice is just an arbitrary concept.
All I'm going to say on this is if you're concerned about who may be able to see that you have put a thanks on a torrent, there is a solution. Go to your profile settings, then set your profile security to "Strong". When this setting is enabled, only a select few staff are able to see who you are when giving thanks.... So it allows you to give thanks (and even SBP) on a torrent, without just anyone being able to see that you have done so.
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@ianfontinell it's a pity they chose not to disclose this fact earlier or I might have left the site, for whatever reasons the owners chose to conceal how serious it was. As I previously mentioned, everything points to FW getting most of their info via hackings, hence the whole thing falls into a "fruit of the poisonous tree" case scenario. We shall see how it goes.
Thanks @mrmazda, I'm going to do that.
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hence the whole thing falls into a "fruit of the poisonous tree"
That was my thought exactly. FW has a history of shady dealings. documented elsewhere in this forum. One of their stunts is to not pay their attorneys, which causes their cases to simply die.
I'm not a FW target as I've never downloaded or commented on their material, but it I were, I'd be inclined to delay the case with motions and such, waiting for their non-paid attorneys to quit and the case to be dismissed.
This is not to be taken as legal advice. If you are involved in this or any other such action, consult your own attorney.
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It is generally assumed that although in a DPI state such as Canada that the big players to the market can see what kind of traffic you have going even through the VPN, they typically do not give a damn what you're actually doing, as long as they don't have copyright holders knocking on their door with infringement claims.
What do you mean here that people and ISP can see what you are doing behind a VPN ? Isn't the whole point of the VPN is to encrypt and hide your IP ? Or is this encryption broken?
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@Aerethiel It is supposed to prevent that kind of thing in theory, but the big players to the market in Canada (Bell, Rogers, Telus, and Videotron) all have such DPI systems, which absolutely CAN and DO decrypt. Until Bill C-9 passed just recently, this practice was highly illegal, but since the passing of that bill, it has become the "standard" practice.
There are other countries like Turkey that come to mind that have the same kind of DPI system. I don't know if their systems can read the actual traffic though to tell what kind it is, or if they can see the actual content as well, but I know in Canada (and likely also the USA), the big player providers (and by extension, the government) can not only see what kind of traffic is being transmitted, but they can also see the content of the traffic too.
This means that for anyone who has smart home gadgets or appliances that connect to their home network, the government absolutely DOES know what you have, what you've got things set to, when you're home or not home, and so much more, as they read all the data from such gadgets to keep track of the people. It's actually kind of scary.
Sadly even in Canada, especially with the recent passing of Bill C-9, a VPN doesn't help... It will keep other people on the internet from seeing what you're up to, or even seeing where and who you really are, but it absolutely will NOT stop the government from prying into your business.
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F frostycab referenced this topic
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