Nike is celebrating Pride Month by partnering up with a doctor who performs mastectomies on adolescent girls
-
@pmrrk There is a big difference between a surgery needed because you will die if you don't get it and an elective surgery that is done voluntarily, without any health complications if it does not get done and is irreversible.
When it comes to trans kids, the trouble that I have is that many of them do not yet fully understand what it is that they want. They should at least be sure of what it is that they want, which usually doesn't happen until they are a bit older.
The only difference between martyrdom and suicide is press coverage! -
@raphjd I suppose the girls do this thinking it will make them better runners. Dragging around those udders must be a "drag".
-
@MrMazda said There is a big difference between a surgery needed because you will die if you don't get it and an elective surgery that is done voluntarily, without any health complications if it does not get done and is irreversible.
For trans people, living in a body that does not align with how they feel in their minds is like a living death.
You have certainty that you are a male. now imagine having that same certainty but inside the body of a woman, how would you feel ? you would feel like that was a living death
@MrMazda said When it comes to trans kids, the trouble that I have is that many of them do not yet fully understand what it is that they want. They should at least be sure of what it is that they want, which usually doesn't happen until they are a bit older.
How many of those who have these types of treatments change their minds? do you think it's 50%? I would agree that that would be a large percentage.
But I think the actuality is closer to less than 1% who changed their minds. Does that 1% justify preventing the treatments for the other 99%?
an elective surgery that is done voluntarily, without any health complications if it does not get done and is irreversible.
This sounds a lot like circumcision. Would you agree that circumcisions should be decided on by the child receiving the circumcision, and not the parents?
-
As a child, I could not get a tattoo or a cock or any other piercing, except ear.
But, as a child, I can get an abortion and surgeries and drugs to change my body.
Hell, I can't even get a male genital mutilation as a child, just because I wanted one.
That begs the question of why can't we force kids to wait until they are adults like we do with everything else?
-
@raphjd said
why can't we force kids to wait until they are adults like we do with everything else?
Because the nature of trans care, which is prohibiting or lessening the appearances of male/female characteristics, is hugely affected by the changes that come during late adolescence. Being able to stop these changes before they've begun or solidified by adulthood means less medication having to be administered which is better for bodies undergoing these changes.
-
As discussed in another thread, puberty blockers cause the penis not to develop fully. This means the doctors will need to use the colon make the vagina.
Also, people don't always stick with it. We have routinely see people detrans.
If a kid can't get a tattoo because they might regret it in years to come, then the same should apply to the other stuff.
If a kid desperately wants a Fuck Trump face tattoo, then we should let him because that's what he/she wants.
-
@raphjd said people don't always stick with it. We have routinely see people detrans.
What does "routinely" mean ....can we see some numbers? What percentage would you say change their minds?
-
There are court cases of people suing in various countries.
Don't your beloved liberal outlets talk about these things?
Jazz Jennings is even pushing back on being trans. She has said that she's actually a gay guy.
-
@raphjd it's interesting that you don't have a number to give me.
Let's pick a really high number. let's say 25% detransition. Now would you agree that the reason for that de-transition would be important to know? Let's say of that 25% number, 40% de-transitioned for financial reasons. And let's say that 20% de-transition because they were pressured by a parent or caregiver, and another 20% because of adverse side effects from the medication. Now let's say the final 20% detransition because they realize that's not what they wanted. So our initial number of 25% upon examination showed that only 5% really changed their minds, with the others having their minds changed for them either because of a parent, financial, or side effect reasons.
So does that 5% justify stopping the other 95% from having these services? Does that seem fair having the minority choose for the majority?
-
This has been talked about here, before.
Scotland wanted to allow 4yo kids to decide their gender, but there was a massive push back and they raised it to 8yo.
8yo is when they can start the medical treatments to trans a person.
Also in Scotland, you are not criminally responsible until 14yo.
You can't have sex until 16yo.
You can't drink until 18yo
You aren't an adult, for legal purposes (contracts, etc) until 18yo.
19yo is when the criminal system finally tries you as a quasi adult.
Between 19 and 25, you only get 25% of the adult sentence for your crimes. I posted about the (now) 25yo serial rapist of young girls who got no jail time because his crimes happened while he was under 25.
So, you can decide that you are trans and start getting medical treatment, in Scotland, at 8yo, but you can't understand right from wrong until you are 14 and aren't fully mature enough until 25 that you can get no jail time for being a serial rapist of young girls. You can rape young girls for a decade and not see the inside of a jail except when you are being processed after your arrest.
Also, we know that at least 1 person died in the Danish study when they had to use the person's colon because puberty blockers prevented his penis from being usable to make a vagina. That being said, your side lies to use and claims that puberty blockers stop preventing puberty once the person stops taking it. That has been proven a lie by the same Danish study.
-
@raphjd it's fascinating that as a point of comparison you use a trans person undergoing transitive care along with a serial rapist. You could have easily compared a person undergoing transitive care to somebody signing a complex legal document such as a contract (you even briefly mentioned it) but that wasn't the highlight of your comment, which was criminals conducting crimes. That is fascinating in and of itself.
I would agree with you that there is a preferable degree of rational thinking which comes along with having an adult brain as compared to having an adolescent one. Ideally we would allow people to make these decisions when they are adults, but puberty happens when it happens.....if puberty happened at age 30 then everyone would be starting trans care at 28. But unfortunately the body doesn't work that way. And I think 95% of people successfully undergoing trans care is a good reason to allow it to continue, regardless the mental age of the person choosing to receive that care.
-
@raphjd so to use your trans people-serial rapist comparison (since that comparison apparently comes easy to you) if I were to ask you at what age you believed serial rapists actually "became" serial rapists (as a defect in their minds) you would probably say by the ages of 12 or 13. The age when most people realize that hurting other people is wrong is about 8 to 10, if not way earlier. That seems to be the age when people start to form ideas of whether they identify as male or female, wouldn't you agree
The speed of light from Earth to the Moon in real time (c = 3×10^8 m/s) -
You are completely missing the point.
The Scottish government believes that 4yos can determine if they are trans and if they can decide for themselves if they want treatment, with or without parental consent.
They only changed it to 8yo because of the backlash
Their belief is that a an 8yo can consent to life-altering treatments, but your brain isn't fully functional until 25.
An 8yo can take puberty blockers but can't get a face/hands tattoo for another 13 years (or a tattoo anywhere else on the body for another 10 years) and tand doesn't know right from wrong for another 6 years.
The comparison of trans vs serial rapist comes easily because it proves the insanity of liberal logic. If there was a recent case of a decade-long killing spree by a serial killer, then I could use that.
Instead of getting caught up in the comparison specifics, look at the logic (total lack of) that I'm disputing.
If an 8yo is completely competent enough to take puberty blockers and get bits chopped off without parental consent, then they are fully competent to face the full weight of the legal system.
8yo should be able to drop out of school, have sex, take out loans, get credit cards, and there should be no minimum age of responsibility. Everyone should be tried and sentenced equally for their crimes, regardless of age from 8yo or 4yo if the government got its way.
If the brain is crap until 25, then it's crap for all things.
If the brain is great at 8, then it's great for all things.
Stop being selective to suit your agenda
-
Scottish law says that 14 is the minimum age of responsibility for criminal acts. You can't be charged for any crime below that age.
I knew right from wrong long before that, but Scotland is weak on crime unless it's saying something mean on the internet.
-
@raphjd said
If an 8yo is completely competent enough to take puberty blockers and get bits chopped off without parental consent,
This is indicative of how you mix truth with fiction. Saying an 8-year-old can determine whether or not they take medication is not the same as an 8-year-old deciding they can have surgery .....which does not happen by the way. Point to one guideline established by anyone of your hated medical authorities that says surgery can and does happen before the age of 14.
-
@raphjd your tangent on the inequities of Scottish serial-rapist law notwithstanding, do you still believe that the 5% should dictate what happens to the 95%?
-
The minority frequently dictates the majority. It's the bedrock of modern western societies.
Just because an 8yo doesn't "need" surgery at that age, doesn't mean that it's not legally allowed.
You could say that abortions without parental consent don't happen at 8yo but if an 8yo did get pregnant and wanted an abortion without parental consent they would be allowed to have one.
-
@raphjd I didn't ask you what "frequently" happens as far as minority and majority. I asked you for your opinion on whether 5% should dictate for the 95%. Do you feel that that's fair? I want to know your opinion, how you feel about it.
I believe that deep down inside you feel that there is a certain fairness which should apply to everyone. In your arguments you're constantly pointing to other examples saying "but see ... they're supposed to do it this way, and they don't ....see how screwed up it is?" That's one of your bedrock arguments.
Which leads me to believe that you feel there should ideally be a level playing field. In any other circumstance you would say that 5% dictating to the 95% is garbage. And you would be right. it's a shame you can't admit that in this case
-
@Spintendo said in Nike is celebrating Pride Month by partnering up with a doctor who performs mastectomies on adolescent girls:
@raphjd so to use your trans people-serial rapist comparison (since that comparison apparently comes easy to you) if I were to ask you at what age you believed serial rapists actually "became" serial rapists (as a defect in their minds) you would probably say by the ages of 12 or 13. The age when most people realize that hurting other people is wrong is about 8 to 10, if not way earlier. That seems to be the age when people start to form ideas of whether they identify as male or female, wouldn't you agree
What 8 Y/O is having bottom surgery?
-
The studies done back up that masses of trans people detransitioning though
In 2022 a UK a survey of 3398 attendees of a gender identity clinic found that just sixteen – about 0.47% – experienced transition-related regret. Of these, even fewer went on to actually detransition and become detransitioners.
In the US, a survey of nearly 28,000 people found that 8% of respondents reported some kind of detransition. Of this 8%, 62% per cent only did so temporarily due to societal, financial, or family pressures..
In Sweden, a fifty-year longitudinal study on a cohort of 767 transgender people found that around 2% of participants expressed regret following gender-affirming surgery, although it is unclear how many of these participants were detransitioning as a consequence.
In the Netherlands, a study of transgender young people found that only 1.9% of young people on puberty blockers did not want to continue with the medical transition.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login