Contesting duplicate file report
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@Kevin4fm there's a difference between video format and container format. video format essentially means the compression algorithm, or in other words, the encoder.
MP4, MKV, AVI, MOV, and even WMV, are container formats, the video format can vary.
If two files of a same video format have <10% difference in size, it's considered a dupe, regardless of the file extension.
1 MP4 file + multiple SRT files and 1 single MKV file containing identical copies of the MP4/SRT aren't considered duplicates.
On the same note, two MP4 files can have <10% size difference and not be duplicates due to different compression algorithms, leading to a similar bitrate but completely different compression efficiency.
Once again I'd like to remind everyone that it's not mandatory that you speak.
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That's the thing. I can't remember. Why would I upload a movie that we already have? How could I not find them? And when I know we have the movie, I upload it in a different aspect ratio, file, or (different) subtitles...
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@Kevin4fm this helps A LOT
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... 1 MP4 file + multiple SRT files and 1 single MKV file containing identical copies of the MP4/SRT aren't considered duplicates. ...
And that's exactly what one of my torrents was. In the description, it even advised there was an additional soft coded language subtitle. Yet it was deleted as a duplicate. And when I challenged this, I was again told it was.
It really shouldn't be hard to change the word "format" in th written rules to "filetype (e.g. .mkv, .mov, .avi)" or "resolution (e.g. 720p, 1080p)" or both, if both apply.
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@Kevin4fm said:
It really shouldn't be hard to change the word "format" in th written rules to "filetype (e.g. .mkv, .mov, .avi)" or "resolution (e.g. 720p, 1080p)" or both, if both apply.wow you just disregarded everything i said, the term "format" regarding to video files has nothing to do with the file extension, container, resolution, profile, etc. It already is the proper wording, changing it to another term would mean replacing the current rule with something entirely different.
In your case it's just a very unfortunate case of mods extrapolating oversimplified rules to complex case-by-case scenarios. The problem is not the usage of the word "format" but the lack of a more detailed rule.
For example, like I said two files might have the same container and size, and not be dupes. Imagine one is H264, and the other is AV1. Same bitrate, different quality.
But if the torrent presentation omit the codec used, a mod might extrapolate, out of their own discretion, that both are H264, and remove the most recent one.
In your case, of the same content being presented in a different packaging, one mod might see them as dupes, another mod might see them as unique.
Changing a word for another will not fix this problem, the rule needs to be robust enough so that mods aren't required to extrapolate based on their own judgement.
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... MP4, MKV, AVI, MOV, and even WMV, are container formats, the video format can vary.
@ianfontinell So when the word "format" is used on its own, does it mean the container format or the video format? You've used it twice, so it seems it could apply to either or both.
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How could I not find them?
Because many videos on the site are not correctly titled. Sometimes people upload something like "2 twinks have sex on a train" and when you look at the pics you immediately know it's this scene from this film from this studio starring these performers.... When somebody else uploads a more recognisably titled version, especially soon after the other one then people will notice, and technically the poorly-labelled one was first, it just wasn't easy to find if you hadn't already noticed it. The good news is that there's no penalty for uploaders who add duplicates to the site (that I know of, anyway.)
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You can in theory reply to the PM you get when it's a confirmed duplicate and explain your case. Make sure that you keep it to the facts and do not attack the mod who made the decision. I will fully admit that just like any other human, mods do sometimes make mistakes and overlook something, including myself.
Whether or not the decision can be reversed depends entirely on how quickly the mod gets to the PM. If they get to the PM soon enough, they can look up the "duplicate" that you posted and compare it once again to the "original" that is still up and on the site. There is only a certain period of time for which the mod is able to do this before the "duplicate" is removed.
If you do feel that it is not a duplicate, you can always upload it again. If you do, just make sure to point to the "original" in the torrent description, then mention the difference(s) between the two versions if you're able to. Generally, there is a 10% rule when both uploads are in the same format container, however this is not a blanket policy, as sometimes there are distinguishable differences between the two versions, even when they are within 10%
If there is a notable difference between the two versions, then it is not a duplicate, but the criteria for determining if it's different enough is rather lengthy. Also, just know that the dupe content is determined by the video file itself, and not so much any of the other extras, so if the only difference is an added set of photos or a subtitle file, then it is still a duplicate. It is only when the distinguishable difference lies in the video file itself that it is not a duplicate.
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@MrMazda said:
Generally, there is a 10% rule when both uploads are in the same format container, however this is not a blanket policy, as sometimes there are distinguishable differences between the two versions, even when they are within 10%This is the complete opposite of everything I said, but you being a mod, your interpretation is the only one that matters, but it once again leads to a question that kevin has made a dozen times and was left unanswered, why mp4 and mkv are treated as one thing and avi is not despite the majority of AVI files being in fact MPEG-4/5.
One thing that I am most hopeful for, is that the new QTM will be way more than just a simple upload tool, it would be extremely helpful if it would automatically create thumbs and fetch video metadata like encoding format, resolution, bitrate, and make that information useful to cross-reference torrents and automate the whole process, when 100% match, or at least aid in the decision making.
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@ianfontinell With MKV, it's harder, as MKV itself is not a format container. This is where it becomes difficult. As for AVI, although the encoding itself is often MPEG of some sort, the format container itself is different. Even if encoded in an MPEG format, when there is even so much as one piece of the AVI file missing, the AVI file becomes unplayable for most files. The same does not hold true with MPG, MP4, etc. I don't know exactly why this is though.
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@MrMazda in MKV files the index header, which is critical information for playback, is stored throughout the entire file, similar to MPEG transport stream files. Whereas AVI store its header after the video stream, at the end of the file.
MP4 can store this index before or after the video stream, which is why some MP4 files can be played partially if you have the first few megabytes, but some MP4 files store that index at the end.
Recordings that are stored in real time using MP4 container will have the index at the end of the file. If the recording is interrupted abruptly, the file is corrupted/unplayable. So while it is true that AVI files will not play if missing the final bytes, MP4 files can suffer the same fate. Only MKV and .TS files are safe from this, as each chunk has its own header/index tables.
But since you mentioned it, AVI is not a format container in the same sense that a MP4 or WMV file is, if I understand what you're saying, which I'm not entirely sure I do.
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@ianfontinell Many thanks for all the detailed explanations. I think my head has exploded, and I've given up trying to actually understand the intricacies and differences, but I sure do appreciate the effort and the thoroughness!
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I reported a duplicate upload of one of my torrents a couple of weeks ago and MY torrent was deleted rather than the duplicate. Any idea why that happened?
The mod never replied to my message about it.
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@underlvr Could it be that the duplicate was older than yours? That happened to me a while ago when a torrent that had been dead for ages suddenly sprang back to life soon after I uploaded mine.
I was told I should contact a moderator first to advise the original torrent is dead. Great idea. Not so good to be told after the fact. It is now written advice somewhere. I think when you upload using the new upload facility, so you don't know about it if you use the classic route.
I really don't think that it's an unreasonable expectation for there to be one set of rules / guidelines in one single place with everything clearly defined and adhered to by everyone.
It would also seem to be a good idea for there to be one central address that all moderators send from and action according to availability, so there's far less risk of a reply to an individual being missed or delayed because they're away for a few days.
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@underlvr Did the reported duplicate get removed as well, or is it still up and active? The reason I ask is that is because sometimes, the newer torrent ends up getting zapped as the result of a DMCA takedown. When this is the case though, you will receive a PM telling you that it was taken down for that reason.
The only other reason I can think of off the top of my head as to why this happens is if your upload was dead, even though it was the older upload, the dead torrent ends up getting taken down, and the newer one becomes the "original" upload.
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@frostycab So having run into this before myself having uploaded a correctly titled version that was subsequently zapped as a dupe, why would the lazy uploader who can't be bothered to correctly title his upload and directly contributes to the absolute mess that this site has become be the one to reap the rewards in seeding and credit for his laziness, while the one who tries to make things easier on other members gets their upload zapped? This has been a problem with this site for literal decades. That is why I preferred GTO, and mostly came here looking for more obscure/older stuff. GTO was incredibly well organized because they had strict rules on uploading. That needs to start happening here. Studio scenes should be REQUIRED to be properly titled (filename included - you have no idea how many files I've gotten from here that are just named "video.mp4", or "2o98475ry98o34yrfw83i7ybhfqo7yt19.mp4" or some other stupid non-descript way) or else they should be rejected. Yes I get thats what happens when things are transcoded or siteripped or otherwise downloaded from sites. But if you're going to do that, take the time to rename them to reflect what they are for fuck's sake. If I go to download a huge pack off my seedbox and I start seeing filenames like w0989498042q3402j984ut09w8jg9jwq598gt.mp4 coming in, I'm canceling and deleting it because it's fucking obnoxious.
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@taboi two things: this site is waaaay bigger than GTO, and also waaay more understaffed. There's no way that anything can be resolved here by simply making rules more strict, the only immediate result would be an even bigger flood of non-compliant uploads.
The new QTM is long due, if done properly it can help fix most of the existing problems. It would be possible to automatically generate previews and build a hashfile database that can be used to cross-reference duplicates.
This way it would be possible to prevent duplicates from being uploaded in the first place, reducing the reports and freeing staff to focus on other stuff.
A NLP could also be deployed to flag missing/incomplete torrent descriptions, and allow for users to fill in the details, instead of having to rely strictly on mods that will only act if something is reported.
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