Incentive for uploaders?

pigtucket

Thanks pigtucket.
I think a seedbox is the way to go.
And just to illustrate my point again:
I just checked out a downloader on my new upload who is blessed with a fast line. I assume that he has never uploaded anything (0 gift seed bonus) but he has a 3.4TB buffer!
He doesn't contribute at all and can download whatever he wants and never has to worry about dropping. His seeding in the first few hours while he downloads make up for 10 times the amount he is downloading.

In the time I have uploaded a little over 500MB he seeded 7.24GB. A ratio of almost 14 on 1/3 of 1.5GB file. It will be much more once the file is fully uploaded.
That's great. It distributes the file quickly. And good for him that he can grab whatever he wants.
A little jealous? Yes, of course. I want more porn too!

Well, to illustrate MY point, here's the proof. Someone uploaded a siterip of "Damn, that's big." The total collection is over 11GB. Here are my stats of a minute ago.

User Connectable Uploaded Upspeed Downloaded Downspeed Ratio Completed Checked UserAgent
pigtucket Yes 16.73 GB 1.84 MB/s 3.09 GB 229.7 KB/s 5.413 27.80% 01:54:05 Transmission/2.22

You decide. :cheers:

p

pigtucket

Woops. I just realized I didn't give quite a good enough example. I just checked my Transmission Remote for my other seedbox, and came across this. (Unfortunately, you can't copy & paste from their screens). Anyway, this is from a torrent from another site.

Downloaded uploaded
7.38 GB (7.38 GB valid) 130.49 GB

Need I say more?

ballard1

WOW!

cumeaternc

@ballard1:

…He doesn't contribute at all ...

...In the time I have uploaded a little over 500MB he seeded 7.24GB...

Umm call me crazy but 7.24GB of seeded traffic for one torrent is contributing.While it makes sense to look for a way to reward uploaders as we have discussed I think it would be forever unfair to punish someone for having a faster upload line.

raphjd

I've been using seedboxes for years now, and YES, they are the way to go.

ballard1

Dear cumeaternc,

you still don't get it.
Nobody ever said anything about punishing people with fast lines. More power to them!
Read the previous posts please!
And with contributing I meant uploading/sharing new material, being active…
I don't want to get into semantics with you. If you still didn't get the drift then I give up.

cumeaternc

While I was work today I had a thought about this situation and came to a simple conclusion. Why not just PM the "offending" seeders and explain to them you are working on your ratio. Then you could politely ask them to throttle their upload speed until you can properly seed the torrent.

ballard1 I am not trying to be combative with you at all. I actually agree with your idea about rewarding uploaders. Read my previous posts about this already being discussed "at a higher level" in the past. I just try to give voice to the seeders who are contributing but they just aren't uploading new material, that's all. Again I apologize if I hurt your feelings.

Here is a sample of what I would send to a "super seeder":

Dear [you],

First off thank you for choosing my torrent upload as material you wish to snatch from the tracker.

The problem is that I am trying to work on my ratio and your upload speed is so much faster than mine that many leechers are getting more content from you than they are me(the original uploader). Is it possible that you "throttle" your upload speed until I can fully upload my torrent? If you are not sure how to do this, the support forums have several guides on how to configure many of the popular torrent clients.

Thanks for understanding & thanks for sharing!

Best Regards,
The Uploader

This doesn't have to be the be all end all message but you could tweak it to fit you needs.

pigtucket

@cumeaternc:

While I was work today I had a thought about this situation and came to a simple conclusion. Why not just PM the "offending" seeders and explain to them you are working on your ratio. Then you could politely ask them to throttle their upload speed until you can properly seed the torrent.

ballard1 I am not trying to be combative with you at all. I actually agree with your idea about rewarding uploaders. Read my previous posts about this already being discussed "at a higher level" in the past. I just try to give voice to the seeders who are contributing but they just aren't uploading new material, that's all. Again I apologize if I hurt your feelings.

Here is a sample of what I would send to a "super seeder":

Dear [you],

First off thank you for choosing my torrent upload as material you wish to snatch from the tracker.

The problem is that I am trying to work on my ratio and your upload speed is so much faster than mine that many leechers are getting more content from you than they are me(the original uploader). Is it possible that you "throttle" your upload speed until I can fully upload my torrent? If you are not sure how to do this, the support forums have several guides on how to configure many of the popular torrent clients.

Thanks for understanding & thanks for sharing!

Best Regards,
The Uploader

This doesn't have to be the be all end all message but you could tweak it to fit you needs.

Oh sure, make ME look like the interloper. ;D

geographer

Or, the fast seeders can simply limit their upload speed on each torrent (say 10 - 20 kB/s)once the ratio on that torrent reaches 1.1 - 1.2. There is no need to get greedy

tjm7077

@ballard1:

After all it's the uploaders who keep this site interesting and running.

ORLY? You might be providing files, but unless you continue to seed those files you aren't keeping anything 'running'.

@ballard1:

As much as I would love to download the occasional DVD-R… I can't do it because it would hit my ratio really hard.

So?

You really only need to keep your ratio above 1.2 (to keep 'PowerUser' status), right? As of me writing this comment you have 961.46GB uploaded, and can download about 86GB before you get there. That's about 20 DVD5s. And that's without uploading anything at all.

[Something to think about… The higher your UL and DL amounts go, the more leeway you have with your ratio. For instance, my ratio here is 1.221 and I can download about 100GB before I get to a 1.00 ratio. On another site, my ratio is lower (1.192), but I can download a twice that amount to get down to that 1.000 mark. I'm not trying to be condescending, it's just that a lot of people tend to focus solely on the ratio, and not really think about the numbers that [i]make up that ratio.]

@cumeaternc:

I am only guaranteed the size of my torrent upload.

This is actually all anyone is guaranteed, as far as the internet is concerned WRT torrenting. This site can only add perks and incentives to encourage behavior, along with setting ratio requirements. This is the same with any private tracker on the web. (It's just my opinion, but I happen to think "Thou shalt not complain when thou hast not been given extra download credit for a torrent" should be engraved on a stone tablet and passed down Mt. Sinai, that way many more than just cumeaternc would understand this universal constant more fully.)

@All… er, Some... err... whatever. You know if this applies to you:
The torrent protocol was designed to do one task well, and that task is to 'share a large file as quickly as possible to as many people as possible, using the least amount of bandwidth and the least amount of processing power'. All this whining about other people having better connections and better speeds is totally irrelevant when it comes to torrents. It's petty jealousy (and from a technical standpoint, is not constructive, but is destructive). And before you get the wrong idea, let your eyes wander to the left a bit and check out my average upload speed — yes, I'm jealous too.

Ballard1, in general I think your idea is a good one. I like it a lot, actually. However, instead of giving uploaders double the upload amount in upload credit it might be better to reward them through further seed-point bonuses instead. That way, people who are okay in terms of their ratio can choose between whether to use them to boost their own upload stats or to reward other members for sharing the pr0nz you like. Someone with a 6-point-something ratio needs doubled UL credit like they need another hole in their head, but if they have extra seed points they can spread 'em around.

NeoStrada

If I may add my bit, here…

Rewarding uploaders in some way is a great incentive for keeping the new stuff coming. SB points is an obvious way to do it, so let's take a look at how this can be used.

1: grant 1 point to the uploader whenever someone snatches the torrent (other then the uploader himself, of course).
2: grant 1 point to the uploader whenever someone completes the torrent.
--> drawback: this encourages uploading mostly popular stuff rather than niche/rarity material.
3: double the SB for seeding your own uploads for a limited period (could the duration it's considered 'new').
--> drawback: this will be a drain on the server; keeping track of who gets how many SB points.

Or, looking at it backwards: the big high-speed seeders currently have bulky upload values but mostly the same SB revenue as the low-speed seeders, meaning they can't 'donate' the one thing they have in excess. So...
1: make it possible to revert upload back to SB points (by some conversion value to be decided with great care), so they can reward uploaders more generously.
2: (bypassing the SB points) make it possible to donate upload.
--> drawback: this may have unforseeen impact on the rationator (which I haven't really figured out)

An alternative to using the SB points for incentive could be to allow uploaders to maintain a lower ratio before revoking their download privileges. Could be by brute number of uploads, or snatched, or completed, or something else; and it should probably be a restricted to a limited backlog.

Or, how about a section in the forum (if it doesn't already exist; I wouldn't know) where uploaders and staff can exchange tips and tricks, and who might upload what next, or whatever the guys putting in the effort might want discuss out of view of freebies like myself. It could be the place uploaders request features and changes to the upload process.

Another thing it might be interesting to consider is letting uploaders browse the 'awaiting approval' titles; just in case someone else has beat them to it, and the second upload will be a waste of time and effort because it'll be a duplicate. No idea if this is an actual issue; feedback from uploaders on this point.

I don't know... Just tossing ideas, here...

I suppose this is where Uploaders and Staff chime in with various degrees of 'please do' and 'no bloody way'.

xenu

@cumeaternc:

Here is a sample of what I would send to a "super seeder":

Dear [you],

First off thank you for choosing my torrent upload as material you wish to snatch from the tracker.

The problem is that I am trying to work on my ratio and your upload speed is so much faster than mine that many leechers are getting more content from you than they are me(the original uploader). Is it possible that you "throttle" your upload speed until I can fully upload my torrent? If you are not sure how to do this, the support forums have several guides on how to configure many of the popular torrent clients.

Thanks for understanding & thanks for sharing!

Best Regards,
The Uploader

This doesn't have to be the be all end all message but you could tweak it to fit you needs.

i doubt anyone would ever claim my speed was taking away from their torrent ratio. lol
i get 100k upload when all my other torrents are off at best
hahahaha