UK liberals and nationalists - why I hate them
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Working Class and white trash are the same thing to the liberal elite.
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Football getting a pass has nothing to do with the topic in general.
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I would love to see the Scottish passport. Until then, the UK is only "nation" here.
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There's plenty of videos on YouTube, which is where I saw the Ch4 interview, with nationalists of all stripe wanting independence from the UK while insisting rUK remain in the EU to make it better for their independent country.
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Maybe you should listen to people like Dianne Abbot when she says if she becomes the Home Sec, she'll remove all border controls and checks on people getting welfare.
Just because their plans are idiotic, like AOC and the Squad in the US, doesn't mean that's not what they say they want.
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ALL QTs are weighted in favour of remain. It has been a long criticism of the program. You can do a simple google search on BBC Brexit Bias, Question Time Brexit Bias.
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Votes within the EU don't all count equally. Smaller countries have higher representation per capita than larger countries. The UK and Germany have lost representation while smaller countries have gained it. This will continue with each new EU session.
As such, my vote means very little in the EU, so why should I want to stay in and fund disgusting shit like animal blood "sports".
Also, we are leaving because the EU gave Cameron nothing to bring back to the people because they thought we'd never vote to leave.
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Like it or not, the abusive relationship analogy is a perfect fit.
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"Remain and Reform" what a frickin joke. 45 years and things have only gotten worse.
The original vote was for an economic community, now they are shouting about an empire.
Juncker is a massive drunkard and was forced out in disgrace as PM, but he's good enough to lead the EU.
Backroom horse trading for the top job
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AOC's original plan, before the New Green Deal, would have cost an extra $48 trillion per decade, not counting population growth or inflation.
Her Green New Deal, which included income for those that refused to work, would cost and extra $100+ trillion. That doesn't include her latest demand of open borders and handing out welfare like candy.
Every man, woman and child would be required to pay an extra $65,000 a year for the NGD, on top of the normal taxes being paid.
Now adjust those figures for the free stuff people want in the UK.
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We could find houses for Syrians, but not for those already homeless in Scotland.
Only a liberal wouldn't be able to understand the problem there.
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Maybe you should contact Dianne Abbot and the rest, explaining to them that they aren't making their case clear for open borders and removing restrictions on welfare.
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I used outside examples because they are liberals and they are doing the same thing regardless of country.
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Working Class and white trash are the same thing to the liberal elite.
Even if that were true (it isn't), she didn't reference either working class OR white trash. So what you've said is at best, a gross misrepresentation. At worst, a blatant lie.
Football getting a pass has nothing to do with the topic in general.
It's a massive example of English nationalism. It gets a pass because it's a direct counter to your argument and you didn't like it.
I would love to see the Scottish passport. Until then, the UK is only "nation" here.
I didn't realise you had to have a national passport to be considered a 'nation'.
There's plenty of videos on YouTube, which is where I saw the Ch4 interview, with nationalists of all stripe wanting independence from the UK while insisting rUK remain in the EU to make it better for their independent country.
Care to share?
Maybe you should listen to people like Dianne Abbot when she says if she becomes the Home Sec, she'll remove all border controls and checks on people getting welfare.
Just because their plans are idiotic, like AOC and the Squad in the US, doesn't mean that's not what they say they want.
Care to share? Again, We arent discussing the US.
ALL QTs are weighted in favour of remain. It has been a long criticism of the program. You can do a simple google search on BBC Brexit Bias, Question Time Brexit Bias.
I didn't dispute that the issue had come up. I've read some of the reports. I made a point about why it might seem to happen that way.
Votes within the EU don't all count equally. Smaller countries have higher representation per capita than larger countries. The UK and Germany have lost representation while smaller countries have gained it. This will continue with each new EU session.
As such, my vote means very little in the EU, so why should I want to stay in and fund disgusting shit like animal blood "sports".
Consider the alternative, where smaller countries would have absolutely NO say at all in the EU parliament whilst those particularly fertile countries would dominate. You make a fair point but, as ever, the issue is more complicated than that.
Your argument about your vote having little impact, so why bother? EVERY vote matters. Look at how close the Brexit vote itself was. Not to mention that your vote led to the Brexit party becoming the largest single party in the EU parliament. Just because sometimes you aren't in the majority is no reason to lose faith in the system. The conservative government is currently in power - do i throw my hands in the air and declare the system flawed or that my vote counts for nothing? No, i keep voting. Change will come.
Also, we are leaving because the EU gave Cameron nothing to bring back to the people because they thought we'd never vote to leave.
This isn't unique to the EU. Many in the UK thought we were never going to leave either. Cameron neither pushed for reform, nor campaigned on the idea that they would push for it. Hence the result. I liked the dude as a decent public speaker with some genuinely beneficial policies, but he no doubt absolutely screwed us
Like it or not, the abusive relationship analogy is a perfect fit
Except it isn't is it? Else you'd be describing how like i'd asked. Do we fear physical harm? Are we being abused emotionally? Do we fear to leave because of the emotional or physical impact of what would happen? Are we feeling helpless, desperate? I say again, shame on you.
"Remain and Reform" what a frickin joke. 45 years and things have only gotten worse.
WE never pushed for reform. We should have done more. As for getting worse, i disagree.
The original vote was for an economic community, now they are shouting about an empire.
The EU as it currently stands is a result of changes made by the EU - we bear some of that responsibility. The only shouting about an empire comes from your side.
Juncker is a massive drunkard and was forced out in disgrace as PM, but he's good enough to lead the EU.
Backroom horse trading for the top job
Boris is a proven liar and adulterer, forced out of his job at the Times in embarrassment. Promises of cushy cabinet positions in order to get the top job. Do i despair over our political system? Have i left the country? No, i vote.
AOC's original plan, before the New Green Deal, would have cost an extra $48 trillion per decade, not counting population growth or inflation.
Her Green New Deal, which included income for those that refused to work, would cost and extra $100+ trillion. That doesn't include her latest demand of open borders and handing out welfare like candy.
Every man, woman and child would be required to pay an extra $65,000 a year for the NGD, on top of the normal taxes being paid.
Now adjust those figures for the free stuff people want in the UK.
Again with the US - you keep mentioning how you hate UK liberals and nationalists, but drag the US into the argument to prove your point. Irrelevant.
We could find houses for Syrians, but not for those already homeless in Scotland.
Only a liberal wouldn't be able to understand the problem there.
Again you simplify and misrepresent the issue massively. The Syrian refugee crisis and homelessness across the country are indeed massive problems and should both be tackled. But you argue the point as a flaw of scottish nationalism. They're doing what they've been told to do by Westminster. It has nothing to do with the Scottish at all, bar location. More should be done to tackle homelessness globally. We currently have a conservative government. These are failings, but not of nationalism or liberalism.
Maybe you should contact Dianne Abbot and the rest, explaining to them that they aren't making their case clear for open borders and removing restrictions on welfare.
I might just do that.
I used outside examples because they are liberals and they are doing the same thing regardless of country.
Maybe you should have made your case clear
Well the conservatives have been in power for how long now? Near 10 years? I'd hardly describe them as liberal. Many of the points you raise whilst using the US as an example, the repeated mention of Blair etc. It isn't the liberals responsible for those issues. Think Veterans have it rough? The conservatives have had 10 years to sort those issues. Perhaps you should direct your annoyance at them?
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Ok, so she resigned why?
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How many St Georges crosses are flying in the UK on government buildings, compared to the other "national" flags.
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Ok, so please name the Scottish ambassador to the UN or the US.
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Why are liberals always so lazy? You guys never back up your claims, but demand that we do it.
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Ah, nice of you to dictate which liberals we can talk about.
Dianne Abbot is the UK''s Shadow Home Sec.
Its not hard to find it.
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So, you know it's happening, but are trying to justify it.
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AH, the "you make a good point but you're too stupid to understand why is it''s a good thing". Liberals always seem to find a way to "justify" whatever the EU does.
Oddly, the last liberal in this thread hates the electoral college in the US, while supporting the shite EU system. Then again, the EU could shit in his mouth and he would praise them for it.
Umm, the EU is extremely undemocratic. Even if we exclude the other parts of the EU, the Parliament election system gives my vote far less sway than some twat in Malta, for example. Each new EU Parliament, if we were to stay, would get worse for US, but better for them.
Let's look at the Brexit vote. One side won, but Parliament is desperate to shit on democracy. 86% of current MP ran on a manifesto to deliver Brexit and here we still are.
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"He screwed us" because he allowed us to have a vote on the matter.
You sound like a typical remainer.
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It is an abusive relationship.
Merkel threw open the borders of Europe to the entire 3rd world. We had no say in the matter. The EU is now hounding countries that reject all these people flocking here for a welfare check.
Of course, liberals scream "racist" at anyone who is against allowing all these welfare migrants to come here for a "refugee salary" as one guy called it, explaining why he was going to Sweden, because they have a better welfare check than Denmark.
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Things have gotten worse over the 45 years.
The original vote was solely for an economic union, not a political one. It was a lie from the very start and it kept going.
You need to revisit who is calling for an EU Empire. I'll give you a hint, Verhofstadt is a great place to start.
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I have no say in Juncker having a top job in the EU. I have somewhat of a say in Boris being PM.
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US and UK (as well as the rest of the west) liberals are very much the same. They are anti-semites how love terrorists, above their own people.
Liberals are liberals are liberals. US Democrats are the same as UK Labour, UK LibDem and UK Greens.
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UMM, it was the SNP (you know Scottish Nationalist Party) couldn't get Syrian refugees into Scotland fast enough, even as you admitted. 2,000 homes suddenly come into existence, that didn't exist 2 minutes before for the homeless already here.
Don't just blame the Tories. I don't know how old you are, but Tony Blair promised to halve the number of kids in poverty. He did it by redefining what poverty means in the UK. Gordon Brown, as Chancellor, moved VAT to the end of the queue, so we paid VAT on everything, including charges, fees, surcharges and other taxes. VAT was raised under Labour.
The so called "bedroom tax" was created by good ol' Gordo. It hit those in private rentals in 2007 and was supposed to hit those in council housing in 2010, but the coalition government gave an extension to 2013.
Councils (regardless of party in charge) refused to get ready for the changes, which is why there were so many problems.
When England and Wales got rid of "council house for life and beyond" in 2015 (??), Scotland, namely the SNP, refused to also get rid of it because its a massive vote getter.
So yeah, its all Boris' fault.
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I'm scratching my head at this, though I'm not from the UK (American here), I can't help but wonder why the site's #1 Forum Policeman (and a good one at that) decides to launch a volley of wild political firestorm into the forums (gay forums at that)? I would imagine it is worse than the equivalent of liberals vs conservatives in the United States; those who love everything Donald Trump does and stands for vs. those of us who think he is someone's puppet and the worse thing that has ever been voted president by the electorate of our country.
Nationalism has no place in the global community any longer. My country is not better than yours - and your country is not better than mine. Unless your country is of those who stone and kill gay people - then your country is a pathetic piece of shit.
If these were my forums, I would have politics formally removed and banned. But apparently, the founders wanted GayTorrent to be an all-inclusive community of everything that is gay - including UK's politics.
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Ok, so she resigned why?
Because the tweet gained a lot of attention, many inferred it was a critique of the working class, the negative press was severely damaging for the party.
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How many St Georges crosses are flying in the UK on government buildings, compared to the other "national" flags.
So we've switched from football to government buildings? Rather than change the subject, why does football get a pass?
As for flags, honestly i have no idea. I only know the likes of westminster and the palace - both the union jack.
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Ok, so please name the Scottish ambassador to the UN or the US.
OK i'll rephrase - I didn't know you had to have a passport, UN or US ambassador to be considered a nation
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Why are liberals always so lazy? You guys never back up your claims, but demand that we do it.
Nothing to do with either liberals or laziness. Burden of proof?
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Ah, nice of you to dictate which liberals we can talk about.
Dianne Abbot is the UK''s Shadow Home Sec.
Its not hard to find it.
Again, Burden of proof.
Post title - UK liberals. You determined who we are supposed to be talking about.
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So, you know it's happening, but are trying to justify it.
Justify? no. explain why it might seem that way. Yes.
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AH, the "you make a good point but you're too stupid to understand why is it''s a good thing". Liberals always seem to find a way to "justify" whatever the EU does.
And you seem to find a way to validate your belief in the evil of the EU. You're backing up your view, im backing up mine. This is what debate is. I didn't say you were stupid. It suits your argument though to make it appear like im attacking you. Rather than address the point, you make it personal. I'm not attacking you, I'm arguing the flaws in your argument.
Umm, the EU is extremely undemocratic. Even if we exclude the other parts of the EU, the Parliament election system gives my vote far less sway than some twat in Malta, for example. Each new EU Parliament, if we were to stay, would get worse for US, but better for them.
Again i say consider the alternative. I made this point earlier, read up if you'd like.
Let's look at the Brexit vote. One side won, but Parliament is desperate to shit on democracy. 86% of current MP ran on a manifesto to deliver Brexit and here we still are.
Since then, polls now show that the majority are now in favour of remain. Are we bound to democracy only once? You vote for an MP to represent your constituency in parliament. Thats what these guys are doing.
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"He screwed us" because he allowed us to have a vote on the matter.
You sound like a typical remainer.
"he screwed us" because he failed to campaign properly on the benefits of remain.
Typical remainer? Is that supposed to wound? You sound like a typical brexit voter. Hence the difference of opinion.
It is an abusive relationship.
No, it isn't.
Merkel threw open the borders of Europe to the entire 3rd world. We had no say in the matter. The EU is now hounding countries that reject all these people flocking here for a welfare check.
Not a sign of an abusive relationship.
Of course, liberals scream "racist" at anyone who is against allowing all these welfare migrants to come here for a "refugee salary" as one guy called it, explaining why he was going to Sweden, because they have a better welfare check than Denmark.
Have i, a liberal, at any stage called you or any brexit voter a racist? There are some that do, just as there are brexit voters that call me traitor. Passions are high.
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Things have gotten worse over the 45 years.
In your opinion. My life is good.
The original vote was solely for an economic union, not a political one. It was a lie from the very start and it kept going.
WE have been involved in those changes.
You need to revisit who is calling for an EU Empire. I'll give you a hint, Verhofstadt is a great place to start.
We could change this, if we were involved. The word empire does indeed have many negative connotations. He was making the point that many empires have been more outward looking and progressive than single nation states. But again, it suits your viewpoint to think of an army marching on smaller nations.
I have no say in Juncker having a top job in the EU. I have somewhat of a say in Boris being PM.
Correction - you have very little direct say in Junker having the top job, but you do have a say. I had NO say in Boris becoming PM. None. At all. There is no perfect system. But the EU undemocratic? not so. For example, Boris, could determine the nexat Sassoli. This would be democratic, as i had a say in choosing Boris. Except i didn't.
US and UK (as well as the rest of the west) liberals are very much the same. They are anti-semites how love terrorists, above their own people.
Liberals are liberals are liberals. US Democrats are the same as UK Labour, UK LibDem and UK Greens.
I'm a liberal. I'm not an anti-semite. I abhor terrorism.
Liberals share some commonalities. Liberalism would be the main one. That aside there are many differences. It depends on how you define liberalism. For many in the US, liberalism = democrat. Thats a very broad range of views right there.
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UMM, it was the SNP (you know Scottish Nationalist Party) couldn't get Syrian refugees into Scotland fast enough, even as you admitted. 2,000 homes suddenly come into existence, that didn't exist 2 minutes before for the homeless already here.
I've already disputed this. Read up.
Don't just blame the Tories. I don't know how old you are, but Tony Blair promised to halve the number of kids in poverty. He did it by redefining what poverty means in the UK. Gordon Brown, as Chancellor, moved VAT to the end of the queue, so we paid VAT on everything, including charges, fees, surcharges and other taxes. VAT was raised under Labour.
The so called "bedroom tax" was created by good ol' Gordo. It hit those in private rentals in 2007 and was supposed to hit those in council housing in 2010, but the coalition government gave an extension to 2013.
Councils (regardless of party in charge) refused to get ready for the changes, which is why there were so many problems.
When England and Wales got rid of "council house for life and beyond" in 2015 (??), Scotland, namely the SNP, refused to also get rid of it because its a massive vote getter.
I didn't blame the conservatives. Just pointing out these are complex issues that neither liberals, nationalists, unionists, conservatives etc have been unable to solve. These are specific societal issues, not liberal ones.
So yeah, its all Boris' fault.
I didn't say that. He's a very small cog in a much larger machine. The machine is neither run by, constructed by or consist of purely liberals. Fault for the specific issues plaguing our country are often not so easily pinned down. No matter how often and how hard you try to phrase it to represent your specific viewpoint.
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I'm scratching my head at this, though I'm not from the UK (American here), I can't help but wonder why the site's #1 Forum Policeman (and a good one at that) decides to launch a volley of wild political firestorm into the forums (gay forums at that)? I would imagine it is worse than the equivalent of liberals vs conservatives in the United States; those who love everything Donald Trump does and stands for vs. those of us who think he is someone's puppet and the worse thing that has ever been voted president by the electorate of our country.
Nationalism has no place in the global community any longer. My country is not better than yours - and your country is not better than mine. Unless your country is of those who stone and kill gay people - then your country is a pathetic piece of shit.
If these were my forums, I would have politics formally removed and banned. But apparently, the founders wanted GayTorrent to be an all-inclusive community of everything that is gay - including UK's politics.
Politics is as much a talking point as, let's say, personal grooming. I can see no reason why not - we're all being civil here right?
Raphjd and I have obviously differing viewpoints, but we're ticking along, making our case like two good upstanding british gentlmen. Well, we're making our case at any rate! It's a good thing to discuss them, share your views and thoughts on some quite important things. Had he made any convincing points, i might even have changed my mind.
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Hopefully one of you is a top, the other a bottom (or at least versatile) and you can pound it out that way.
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Hopefully one of you is a top, the other a bottom (or at least versatile) and you can pound it out that way.
I've had some questionable guys before now but I'm not sure the few standards i do have will stretch this far. Sorry raphjd buddy, seems our budding romance is a non-starter
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Hopefully one of you is a top, the other a bottom (or at least versatile) and you can pound it out that way.
I've had some questionable guys before now but I'm not sure the few standards i do have will stretch this far. Sorry raphjd buddy, seems our budding romance is a non-starter
Considering you've been a member for 5 years; Downloaded under 2 gigs, uploaded under 60 MEGABYTES …. yet you place all this energy into a forum debate .... some might suggest you just shoot blanks anyway. lol. What gives with the lack of participation in torrenting for 5 years? You just like keeping an eye on things?
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I'm a dual national; US/UK.
My husband is is British.
We live in the UK because GWB gave illegal family members of anchor babies priority in the queue. Even though my husband applied for his green card 1 day after he first could, and he passed the first few steps, he still had to leave the US.
I remember Bill Clinton signing into law the 3 most homophobic laws the US ever had. Schumer authored, it's claimed, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
Thats some background on me.
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So you are saying that a lot of people veiwed the tweet the same way I saw it.
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I was talking about the England flag in general, you brought up football.
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That's a state or province. OR a future EU member.
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It is about liberals being lazy and hypocrites. I have to back up everything I say, but you guys always refuse to do likewise.
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I have talked about UK liberals, but also talked about US ones. I could talk about people from other western countries. SUch as Justin Trudeau, Canada's PM being ubber woke, but loves to wear black and brownface.
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Justify, is the correct word.
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The EU gives me the ammo to say what I do.
Backkroom horse trading for the top spots, like we recently saw, is just one example.
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I have considered the alternative, my vote counts the same as the twat from Malta, or the liberal who was in these threads recently, from Denmark, who did nothing but scream "racist" and "neo-nazi" at me for not worshiping the EU.
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Maybe a poll from the Guardian.
Other polls suggest the same results as last time.
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Other than being Merkel's bitch, I don't really see the benefit of being a member. I can see why Poland, especially, sees being a member of the EU (see attached chart).
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Merkel is our master, when she can throw open the borders for all countries in Europe to eery 3rd worlder looking for a welfare check.
No equality there. Therefore it's an abusive relationship.
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Go back through these recent threads and look at the comments from your fellow EU worshiping liberal.
I wouldn''t call you a traitor, but I would call many politicians "traitors" for their treasonous acts, such as secretly having talks with EU officials trying to prevent the UK leaving.
Let's not forget that 86% of current MPs ran on a manifesto in 2017 to deliver Brexit. That''s a lot of blatant liars. Anna Soubry even admitted that she only supported the referendum because she never believed wed vote to leave. She also ran on delivering Brexit. She demands another referendum due to "new evidence" but wont have a bielection for the same reason. Ironically, she started the CUK Party. Yep, a bunch of EU cucks in the CUK party, all of whom ran on delivering Brexit.
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Verhofstadt isn't the only one wanting a European Empire. Nor is he the only one to want to get rid of national sovereignty.
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CORRECTION - You have as much say about Boris as I did about Gordo.
That is more say than we have for anyone than we have for MEPs, since we only vote for a party, not a person.
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Scotland could have taken longer to take the Syrian refugees, but the SNP were wetting their panties to show how wonderful they are by getting it done early, while not giving a crap about the homeless already here.
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Council house for life and beyond could have been ended in Scotland, like the rest of the UK, but they didn't because the SNP relies on those voters. It's not complicated at all. They refused to take over welfare, despite raising taxes to bolster welfare, so they can blame Westminster for the welfare system. The SNP could make the utopian welfare system they claim we'd have in an EU ruled independent Scotland, but they refuse so they can blame the Westminster.
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BTW, Emily Thornberry didn't resign in embarrassment over that tweet.
She is the Shadow Foreign Secretary.
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