Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals
-
@raphjd Cops should be trained in DE-escalating a situation. Any fool can shoot another a person dead. But I don't know, you always seem to take the side of the oppressor...
-
Clearly, you have not read what I have said about cops in various posts.
Supporting a cop shooting someone trying to murder another person, isn't "supporting the oppressor". The guy should have been shot as well for the football kick he did to the girl's laying on the ground.
It sounds like you support the criminals. The difference between you and me is that I supporting keeping the girl in pink alive while you don't care if she got murdered.
Cops are a necessary evil. Without them, crime skyrockets as we see in Democrat-controlled cities. Beetlejuice needed 27 cops to protect her house, yet she insisted police stop arresting criminals.
Cops should not have Qualified Immunity, because if their actions were justified, then there is no issue. If their actions are not justified, then they get in trouble.
Cops should be registered nationally so when they are fired and/or convicted of a crime, they lose their accreditation and can never be a cop again.
-
@raphjd All I know is that person 'A' wanted to kill person 'B' and then an intervention from a police should have defused the situation, it didn't. A person got killed. For all we know this could all have been an elaborated story to justify that a person is dead and a police killed her!
-
@vmalar also we don't know why person a had the knife, it's possible she was defending herself, and it's possible she may have been the person to call the police in the first place.
to me it's just pathetic how cops shoot people to death the minute the situation becomes a little inconvenient. They rather someone else's life end than working harder to defuse a situation. This is what our taxpayer dollars are going towards?
-
@chanelkokoro said in Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals:
@vmalar also we don't know why person a had the knife, it's possible she was defending herself, and it's possible she may have been the person to call the police in the first place.
to me it's just pathetic how cops shoot people to death the minute the situation becomes a little inconvenient. They rather someone else's life end than working harder to defuse a situation. This is what our taxpayer dollars are going towards?
Many American police departments use militarized training tactics:
- ELEVATE tensions and exert complete and total control
- civilians who resist - especially those with weapons - are treated as "enemy combatants" and are open ("eligible") for lethal repercussions
The vast majority of US law enforcement are never trained in de-escalation techniques, nor are they rewarded for non-violent interventions that defuse a situation, thus avoiding an arrest... to the contrary, they are often evaluated based on the number of arrests made.
A commonly cited, but equally true statement about US law enforcement training is sad, but telling: in most jurisdictions you need more hours of training to become a hair stylist than to become a police officer.
-
A commonly cited, but equally true statement about US law enforcement training is sad, but telling: in most jurisdictions you need more hours of training to become a hair stylist than to become a police officer.
In Arizona, for example, you need 1,500 hours of training to be a barber but you only need 800 hours to be a cop.
-
This seems slightly off. The military is much better trained than police are, they kind of have to be. every service man I have ever seen speaking on this topic is appalled at policing in america. They said that not only are they taught de-escalation they are are taught abut discernment, operating under pressure, how to suppress your fear and be rational. And it makes sense, because if you think about it, if you're in the middle east you can't just go in guns blazing shooting everything that moves, you have to be able to accomplish your mission and work with allies. sometimes the mission is to rescue and protect civilians etc, this is the main reason why a lot of people who return from active combat or at least have had combat training become police officers get into these police brutality incidents much less than those who haven't, (barring the mentally ill psychos who joined the military because they just wanted to kill legally.)
the police have been militarized in the sense that they have access to all of the military's leftover toys and none of their training.
-
This post is deleted! -
@jsl76 this sort of thing happens in London - no, the person does not end up severely wounded or killed. Police killing people in the U.K. is extremely rare… so much so that it makes the news pretty quick if they do - National news, not local…
For example, police chases have resulted in 6 deaths in the last 6 months… inquiries are being drawn up and people are questioning whether the police response was correct…
Very very different attitude and way of operating.
-
@chanelkokoro said in Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals:
This seems slightly off. The military is much better trained than police are, they kind of have to be.
How is it "off" when you re-state my case?
US Police forces have been trained (in 30-second intervals) to behave like our military - and given some of the same weaponry and other "tools of warfare" - and then turned loose on our own population.
... with less training than a barber or cosmetologist!
And then we stand back and wonder why innocent (and hell, even guilty) people are killed by those same poorly trained, improperly trained (that is: trained in the wrong skills - for military operations, not policing ones!), overly equipped officers?
-
@calatar Again, check the video. Please don't reply to me unless you're actually replying to me.
I will say that as someone who's a martial-arts student, we're taught that the first rule of knife fighting is "You're going to get cut." It's simply not plausible given the video of the Bryant case that the girl in pink would have walked away unscathed if the officer had taken his time and tried alternative modes of de-escalation.
It's not obvious why you continue to drone on about this subject when you haven't displayed even a cursory knowledge of the facts on the ground.
-
@bi4smooth ah ok, I was arguing against:
Many American police departments use militarized training tactics
Many servicemen I know would disagree with such a characterization, they don't want to be associated the dumpster fire that has become american policing. A lot of them are quite proud of their training.
but I concede that our general points are the same.
-
@jsl76 said in Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals:
@calatar Check the video, dude. The officer had fewer than 10 seconds from arriving on scene to shooting to make a decision, and in this case, the use of force was surely justified. Had this happened in London, the girl in pink would have been severely wounded or killed. In America, the knife-wielding attacker was killed. I prefer our solution to that of our cousins across the pond, IMO. No one wants to see ANYONE killed by anyone for any reason, but your comments demonstrate you haven't performed even the most cursory review of the Bryant scene.
I once pulled out a knife on my own father, because he violated a restraining order and came to my mom's house to do her and me harm. This is the same man who on another occasion used an axe to break down my mother's bedroom door, who took all of our china and set it on fire in the back yard, who broke my mother's nose and pushed her down a flight of stairs. I went to the kitchen and grabbed a serrated steak knife because I was scared and needed something to protect myself with. Had the police in this story had seen me I'm the one who would've been shot dead, are you saying I would've deserved it?
-
@chanelkokoro said in Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals:
I once pulled out a knife on my own father, because he violated a restraining order and came to my mom's house to do her and me harm. This is the same man who on another occasion used an axe to break down my mother's bedroom door, who took all of our china and set it on fire in the back yard, who broke my mother's nose and pushed her down a flight of stairs. I went to the kitchen and grabbed a serrated steak knife because I was scared and needed something to protect myself with. Had the police in this story had seen me I'm the one who would've been shot dead, are you saying I would've deserved it?
I have said nothing of the sort; I've very deliberately crafted my replies to speak only to the Bryant case. But good game, bro, on the attempt to troll.
-
@jsl76
pffft, I'm not trolling, I am asking you to envision a situation in which the girl may have been completely justified in holding that knife. I didn't realize I was asking too much by sharing a personal story and asking you to think a little bit, my bad. 
If it was okay to kill people based on potentialities all of us would be dead by now.
-
@chanelkokoro said in Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals:
@jsl76
pffft, I'm not trolling, I am asking you to envision a situation in which the girl may have been completely justified in holding that knife. I didn't realize I was asking too much by sharing a personal story and asking you to think a little bit, my bad. If it was okay to kill people based on potentialities all of us would be dead by now.
Did you watch the video? It seems you want to weigh in on leftist talking points without acutally apprehending the facts in the case. I'm not interested in debating counterfactuals with someone who hasn't even mastered the factuals. But thanks for playing.
-
@jsl76 said in Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals:
Did you watch the video? It seems you want to weigh in on leftist talking points without acutally apprehending the facts in the case. I'm not interested in debating counterfactuals with someone who hasn't even mastered the factuals. But thanks for playing.
I had to go back and check because sometimes you guys say bs so confidently, I was like did I miss something? How can you blame me for not watching a video you didn't even link? My thoughts are based on what I've read about the case. If there is some kind of video floating around that you believe justifies this shooting why don't you share it?
You just hurt my feelings bro.
Maybe I just needed more information, jeez. "factuals" and "counterfactuals" what kind of pretentious... What are you even talking about? If you don't want to defend your argument just say so, don't make it seem like there's a problem with my intelligence. 
Why the mean girl energy, Regina George??
-
@chanelkokoro said in Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals:
I had to go back and check because sometimes you guys say bs so confidently, I was like did I miss something? How can you blame me for not watching a video you didn't even link? My thoughts are based on what I've read about the case. If there is some kind of video floating around that you believe justifies this shooting why don't you share it?
You just hurt my feelings bro.
Maybe I just needed more information, jeez. "factuals" and "counterfactuals" what kind of pretentious... What are you even talking about? If you don't want to defend your argument just say so, don't make it seem like there's a problem with my intelligence. Why the mean girl energy, Regina George??
Well, if you're incapable of Googling "Bryant video" and you don't know what basic terms of argumentation actually mean, maybe there is a problem with your intelligence? I'm not obligated to spoon-feed facts to someone who's spouted off several times without bothering to do even basic research. Being informed is your job, sugarplum.
-
@jsl76 I was replying to you…
I actually teach a martial art… and one which uses knives. And no, I don’t teach my students that they’re going to get cut…
I’ve watched the video. I still think it is a complete failure of training and understanding that the officer ended up shooting an individual. Possibly also a failure of equipment.
For example, wouldn’t a taser be far more effective? Obviously not guaranteed to be non-lethal, but not as likely as a live round to kill.
By the by, I’m also firearms trained by a police force (the fun of being a diplomat in hostile countries!).
-
@calatar said in Teenage knife fights are no big deal, say liberals:
@jsl76 I was replying to you…
I actually teach a martial art… and one which uses knives. And no, I don’t teach my students that they’re going to get cut…
I’ve watched the video. I still think it is a complete failure of training and understanding that the officer ended up shooting an individual. Possibly also a failure of equipment.
For example, wouldn’t a taser be far more effective? Obviously not guaranteed to be non-lethal, but not as likely as a live round to kill.
By the by, I’m also firearms trained by a police force (the fun of being a diplomat in hostile countries!).
My instructor (who is an instructor for uechi-ryu karate, BJJ, krav maga, and escrima) and the various instructors who visit our dojo are pretty consistent that if you're going to be engaged in knife defense, you should assume you will be cut. There's a lot of reasons to teach that approach; you may find some value in exploring the question on behalf of your students. It's not obvious that knife defense without a presumption of injury makes a ton of sense -- because when they're injured, their reaction to the attack is compromised if they're not prepped for it -- but to each his own.
It's also not obvious that in the 10 seconds from arrival to gunshot, that the officer had any opportunity to strategize an alternative solution. I don't know how he could have deployed a taser in time, to be honest. It's standard training for most U.S.-based police forces to shoot to kill if a person is wielding a deadly weapon. People can disagree, legitimately, as to whether this approach is better or worse. But if you accept that this is the standard training, I don't see how we could expect the officer to do anything other than what he did.
What it really boils down to is this: Under the current policing and use-of-force logic in most U.S. police departments, the shooting of Bryant was appropriate and justified. It's tragic, to be sure. But it fell within the scope of the officer's training. There's room to disagree as to whether this ought to be the logic of most police forces -- but that's a different, broader argument. People will disagree, but given the reality of the situation, I don't see an alterative that makes any sense. The Bryant case is a very, very weak hook for "police should be less violent" arguments, because there are many other, better, cases to shoehorn that perspective.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login