Is the Confederate Flag a Symbol of Racism or History?
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It depends on the context in which the flag is shown. If published in a history book, or in a museum, or in a documentary, or a historic reenactment, it's history. If it's being flown at a skinhead rally, or on a monument to an anti-civil rights politician, or was put up on a government building back in the 50s as a response to the civil rights movement (I think this was the case in… Georgia, was it?) then it's all about race.
Government buildings should not fly the Confederate flag. The flag is a symbol of the dissolution of the United States and THAT particular question was settled 170-ish years ago. Any subsequent flying of the flag by local and state governments should be considered treasonable, as it implies advocating the break-up of the the US (one of the legal definitions of treason, if I recall), and/or racist, as the flag is a symbol of the attempt to claim race superiority, in the same way the original Confederates who used the flag and it's variations, thought of themselves.
Any "pride" associated with the flag is by default, pride in white supremacy, given the social and historic associations with the flag, whether it's supports are willing to admit it or not.
Just my two cents.
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i just kind of see this confederate flag thing as the result of bad apples spoiling the whole bunch
there are people who use the flag as a symbol of their traditions, sure. there are also people who use the flag as a symbol of hate, racism, or in protest against America. Since I'm not going to go and ask everyone with the flag their intentions, it just leaves a "maybe" in my head about the people who own it.
to me the symbol isn't worth all the negative association connected to it. southern tradition is rich and I don't see the necessity of a flag to symbolize it or any other culture for that matter.
and I don't really consider it erasing history. I don't think many people are out there asking for the flag to be removed from history textbooks or databases. The swastika is arguably a much more offensive symbol and we don't go and see it waved all over the place anymore- that doesn't mean we forgot it. Most people know what a swastika is.
This is how i see it
A symbol used by a minority in a really awful way, that now has tainted any positive light that the flag, could have had -
It reminds me of some small minorities anger over the use of the rainbow and the word gay for gay/lesbian pride
In fact - some people see the rainbow flag in the same way - as tainted -
Any "pride" associated with the flag is by default, pride in white supremacy, given the social and historic associations with the flag, whether it's supports are willing to admit it or not.
My dad belonged to a motorcycle club when we lived in North Carolina. It was mixed race since most of the people were military. The "rebel flag" was part of their "colors".
The only thing these people were into was motorcycles and helping people.
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It's a flag that represented the confederate states during the civil war. Call it what you will but I would say simply it's part of History. What it stood for is up for debate but many of the ideals it represented was associated with enslaving a group of individuals for the profit of rich white men.
There are many that find this flag very offensive. I'm sure your friend Jeff Sessions finds the confederate flag a beautiful symbol considering he is from the most treasonous of all states, South Carolina!!!
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There are many that find this flag very offensive. I'm sure your friend Jeff Sessions finds the confederate flag a beautiful symbol considering he is from the most treasonous of all states, South Carolina!!!
He is from ALABAMA!
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I am from Alabama, and have deep roots throughout the state of Alabama and indeed of the entire South. These same roots go even deeper up the colonies to the Mayflower. The only thing that makes the flag a big deal is the people that are opposed to it. The people that are opposed to it are so they can get their 15 minutes. It is never about the flag, or for what it supposedly stands for, it is about some greater "social justice" issue.
Secretary Rice makes some good points on this issue:
http://yellowhammernews.com/politics-2/condoleezza-rice-blasts-efforts-to-sanitize-history-by-removing-historic-monuments-cdr/ -
I think some people wallow in oppression.
I converted a rapper from doing songs about black are oppressed to doing songs about black empowerment. He'd never had an actual conversation with a white person who owns a business. He went from doing songs about whitey refusing to give jobs to blacks to doing songs about staying in school and bettering yourself.
I see this situation being kinda the same.
Rather than focusing on actual oppression, people are getting butt hurt of some historical thing.
Despite what the Nazis did to gays, I don't wallow in oppression every time I see a Nazi symbol. I don't wallow in the fact that when the Allies freed the concentration camps, gays were left there and later sent to a proper prison, while everyone else was released. Maybe I should view all the symbols of the allies as oppression too.
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I think some people wallow in oppression.
I converted a rapper from doing songs about black are oppressed to doing songs about black empowerment. He'd never had an actual conversation with a white person who owns a business. He went from doing songs about whitey refusing to give jobs to blacks to doing songs about staying in school and bettering yourself.
I see this situation being kinda the same.
Rather than focusing on actual oppression, people are getting butt hurt of some historical thing.
Despite what the Nazis did to gays, I don't wallow in oppression every time I see a Nazi symbol. I don't wallow in the fact that when the Allies freed the concentration camps, gays were left there and later sent to a proper prison, while everyone else was released. Maybe I should view all the symbols of the allies as oppression too.
Were Nazi flags raised near Government buildings?
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It's both. They aren't mutually exclusive.
The confederate flag is also the definition of anti-american.
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I think some people wallow in oppression.
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Rather than focusing on actual oppression, people are getting butt hurt of some historical thing.You didn't actually make an argument that the confederate flag isn't a symbol of racism, presumably because you know it is. Instead, what you did is lump together rapping about white people not hiring black people with being upset about our government proudly flying a flag that symbolizes the treasonous lengths white people once went to protect their right to treat other people as chattel slavery.
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Let's be honest here. Both apply equally. Anyone who claims otherwise… well let's just not start that argument up. The Nazi flag and Swastika is another example of something that is both.
Then again, the Swastika is stole image and icon.
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I hope you realize that whites weren't the only slave owners in the US. Plenty of blacks also owned slaves.
Chattel slavery came to the new world through Anthony Johnson (former indentured slave himself) when he refused to let go of his indentured slave John Casor. It was a black man that gave the new world chattel slavery.
In 1705, Virginia declared that any non christian (Protestant) was a slave. Race wasn't even mentioned.
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I think some people wallow in oppression.
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Rather than focusing on actual oppression, people are getting butt hurt of some historical thing.You didn't actually make an argument that the confederate flag isn't a symbol of racism, presumably because you know it is. Instead, what you did is lump together rapping about white people not hiring black people with being upset about our government proudly flying a flag that symbolizes the treasonous lengths white people once went to protect their right to treat other people as chattel slavery.
Don't rewrite history. The War was not about slavery, alone, and actually had NOTHING to do with moral issues of slavery, but of the economic and financial consequences.
Slavery of blacks on this continent would never have existed if their fellow Africans weren't so willing to sell each other into it. -
Both. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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Both. They aren't mutually exclusive.
One could say the American Flag is also racist…
Consider the treatment of the American Indians, and the Japanese during WW2 among other things. -
Both. They aren't mutually exclusive.
One could say the American Flag is also racist…
Consider the treatment of the American Indians, and the Japanese during WW2 among other things.But the country as a whole has admitted those were wrong and we do not celebrate those things as a country the way the South seems to want to celebrate treason and the displacement and barbaric genocide of a set of people. With the American flag we celebrate the many, many freedoms we have (and continue to fight for) while also remembering some of the bad things the country has done. The confederate flag does neither of those, it's an attempt by some to celebrate something truly disgusting while ultimately overshadowing those who legitimately believe it is a symbol of Southern heritage.
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Not everyone who flies/wears the confederate flag is a racist. For many it's simply a symbol of southern pride. For some it's a symbol of rebellion.
Only an SJW would reduce everything into an ism and/or a phobia.
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My exact words: "it's an attempt by some to celebrate something truly disgusting while ultimately overshadowing those who legitimately believe it is a symbol of Southern heritage."
Yes, for many it is a symbol of Southern pride. I know that for a fact because there are members of my family who wear it proudly and I do not object to it in any shape or form whenever they wear it or fly it in their yards or place it on their bumpers. That is completely different than the state displaying any of the flags as something EVERYONE should have to pass on public property and pay respect to when the whole idea of the confederacy is against many of our beliefs. I respect people's right to wear it on their bodies and display it on their property, but it should not be something that the state wholly upholds and displays as if the state and everyone who lives in the state is promoting it. That's where I have to draw the line and that's where my state was forced to draw the line after what happened in Charleston in 2015.
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I wasn't directing that comment at you.
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