Something Trump is wrong about..
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Of course I'd be furious that the criminal got off. HOWEVER, what good would it do to execute innocent men? How the hell would that make me feel better?! How would executing a soldier who was proven not to even be in the country at the time (the UK case I mentioned) benefit me in the scenario you mentioned? How would if benefit me to execute someone like Derrick Bennett (other UK case mentioned)?
Your comment sparked a thought in my brain…
Consider that your a horrible crime was committed upon someone you care about. You are devastated and distraught. There is a conviction and an execution. But then.. you find out that the man that was executed was not guilty! THAT would fuck up the rest of your life.I do understand what you're saying but let me reframe it so you can understand how I see the situation as a whole.
I'm speaking generally of the entire judicial system where, statistically speaking, there are going to be some innocent people executed and there is nothing that can prevent that from happening. It's analogous to getting a procedure done to remove skin cancer, sometimes there'll be a fatality in the surgery. Does the occasional wrongful execution mean that we should scrap the program? I say no.
For me, the trouble with arguing about this individual case and that individual case is that no matter how riveting or tragic the individual stories are, they are just an appeal to emotion. This means that you're indirectly suggesting we make policies based on feelings. But you're going to feel terrible if you find out he's innocent. Yeah, probably but you can't make laws that deal with feelings. That's the beginning of Political Correctness.
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Your whole premise is based on executing innocent men so some guilty men don't go free. I can understand why you don't want us to think about executing innocent men. It makes you look like an asshole.
How many innocent men are you willing to allow to be executed in order to prevent 1 crime? Give us a number.
You want innocent men to be executed to prevent a rape or carjacking. How many innocent men need to be executed before you are willing to say "that's fucking enough" to prevent a single carjacking?!
Ok, so you admit that some innocent men are executed. That is why I made my original post. I said I support the death penalty in principle, but not in practice because innocent people get executed. You support the death penalty and say who gives a fuck about the innocent men who get executed, I don't know them. That is the difference between our stances.
But those are real cases, that you support happening exactly like they did. Also, if you want to complain about "emotion" then why did you set up the scenario about my family? It was for emotional reasons. Do you really not get that?
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Ok, so which male members of your family and loved ones are you going to sacrifice to this "justice" system you support? Come on, you can't be willing to throw everyone else under the bus if you aren't willing to do it to your own. And NO, I'm not talking about Uncle Jim that everyone hates. It has to be someone you actually care about.
In your child molestation example, how does executing innocent men have anything to do with piss poor sentencing and the refusal to build more prisons? In Europe, they don't "punish" they "rehabilitate". This means they are weak on criminals, actual fucking criminals. It has nothing to do with executing innocent men.
In the US, to get out on parole, you only have to claim to be sorry and a believer of one of the big 3 religions. In the UK, you have to say sorry and admit you are guilty. You won't get out on parole unless you admit you are guilty, in the UK. You also have to sign a document stating that the conviction was just.
Instead of focusing on executing innocent men, make the justice system really about justice.
Stop focusing on executing innocent men and focus on prosecutorial misconduct, police corruption and the like.
Not once have you advocated fixing the system. Your stance has always been, the system if fucked, so execute innocent men.
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I believe OJ is a murderer. HOWEVER, the stench of shit by the LAPD, et al, never left my nostrils. The cop that admitted on tape that he (and other cops) would routinely plant evidence was glaring when he is the one that found all the main evidence. Blood evidence items left in a crime scene van with a broken cooling system.
While I do believe he's guilty, I would vote NOT GUILTY if I was on that jury.
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Your whole premise is based on executing innocent men so some guilty men don't go free. I can understand why you don't want us to think about executing innocent men. It makes you look like an asshole.
No. It makes it look like you have nothing but an ad hominem argument. In all the anti SJW, 3rd 'n 4th wave feminist posts you make the people here tell you that you're an asshole for saying x, y, z without ever taking you seriously. You shout back and forth. You thump on your chests. You feel you've accomplished something.
You don't.
These ad hominem attacks just make you appear like a teenager – and I have no way of knowing that you're not.
How many innocent men are you willing to allow to be executed in order to prevent 1 crime? Give us a number.
If you're going to ask this kind of question you first answer the same question about your own thoughts: How many people are you willing to let be victimized by repeat offenders before you say enough?
By asking these kinds of rhetorical questions you stall discussion. You think you've made a great point but you're just punting the ball away. It gives the impression you don't have an answer – and you probably don't.
Ok, so you admit that some innocent men are executed. That is why I made my original post. I said I support the death penalty in principle, but not in practice because innocent people get executed. **You support the death penalty and say who gives a fuck about the innocent men who get executed, I don't know them. That is the difference between our stances. **
But those are real cases, that you support happening exactly like they did. Also, if you want to complain about "emotion" then **why did you set up the scenario about my family? ** It was for emotional reasons. Do you really not get that?
Why did I set up the scenario about your family? Because you had previously set up a similar scenario about mine and then wished me dead for having done so. Otherwise, I wouldn't have. That's not my style.
What you said is not the difference in our styles. Let me do a round about and then come back to this.
Laci Green put up several examples of women who had been actually rapped but their cases dismissed because of lack of evidence, too much time passing, yada, yada, yada. She used those specific examples to say, hey, this system is broken. What we should do instead is redefine rape to mean this and change the existing ways the police to things. All of this was and is supported by pulling up specific extreme examples where the system didn't work.
You're doing the exact same thing. You're saying look at these specific cases. OMG, the tragedy! Because of these specific examples we now have proof the entire system is flawed and should be abolished.
What you both are doing is creating policy based on FEELINGS. This is why I don't argue from emotion (unless I'm feeling lazy in real life).
The difference in styles between what you and I are arguing is that I'm looking at the system in totality and saying statistically people fall through the cracks. You're digging into those cracks. You're pulling pennies out as though they're things of value. I'm saying this is the system we have, let's deal with it; you're saying this one part of the system in broken – because pennies -- so lets destroy the whole thing.
Does that make sense now? I don't think policy should be made from feelings. You apparently do.
In your child molestation example, how does executing innocent men have anything to do with piss poor sentencing and the refusal to build more prisons? In Europe, they don't "punish" they "rehabilitate". This means they are weak on criminals, actual fucking criminals. It has nothing to do with executing innocent men.
Once again, my argument has nothing to do with executing innocent people. Zero. I explained this multiple times in the course of this thread. Perhaps the previous example will finally make it sink in for you.
The rest of your argument proves my point. I think if you molest a child you should be executed. I, personally, am willing to concede that a person should be given one chance. If after they're rehabilitated they never do it again, fine. If they get caught again, off to the chopping block. Let me be clear, I'm talking about executable offenses, not theft. I'm also talking about such offences in the West, not in Uganda where being gay is an executable offence.
Instead of focusing on executing innocent men, make the justice system really about justice.
Stop focusing on executing innocent men and focus on prosecutorial misconduct, police corruption and the like.
Not once have you advocated fixing the system. Your stance has always been, the system if fucked, so execute innocent men.
As I said, the choice is unfixable. There is a continuum. The choices on either side are binaries that learned men have been discussing for at least 2000 years. Interestingly, Sam Harris has said that within a decade we will most likely have computer systems that will be able to tell if someone is telling the truth perfectly every time. Such a machine would help rule out certain cases and help prevent the innocent from being executed.
Otherwise, your solution is to throw out the whole system. I'm saying, no. In fact, the current system in the US has already been modified so much that it's more expensive to put a person on death row than to just keep him alive for life imprisonment. I think there are enough guilty people on death row to be executed right now. I'd put Charlie Manson at the top of the list but those changes to the death penalty say that he's not guilty by reason of insanity.
I believe OJ is a murderer. HOWEVER, the stench of shit by the LAPD, et al, never left my nostrils. The cop that admitted on tape that he (and other cops) would routinely plant evidence was glaring when he is the one that found all the main evidence. Blood evidence items left in a crime scene van with a broken cooling system.
While I do believe he's guilty, I would vote NOT GUILTY if I was on that jury.
One of the many problems with our justice system. It doesn't mean we should throw out trial by jury, does it?
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The rest of your argument proves my point. I think if you molest a child you should be executed. I, personally, am willing to concede that a person should be given one chance. If after they're rehabilitated they never do it again, fine. If they get caught again, off to the chopping block. Let me be clear, I'm talking about executable offenses, not theft. I'm also talking about such offences in the West, not in Uganda where being gay is an executable offence.
I have two real examples of how such thinking could have gone very wrong:
1. My dad and his 2nd wife adopted a group of 4 siblings (biological brothers and sister). They were all cocaine babies, all monsters. They would routinely do things like try to set the house on fire, steal mail from neighbor's mailboxes (birthday money for example), break into neighbor's houses, girl was having sex with her own brothers, dealing drugs, throwing each other's toys into a lake, etc. One time, the little girl accused my father of molesting her. If that girl had any credibility at all, my dad would have been put in jail. It was so absurd that the police laughed at her.2. One time, someone I had a dispute with a business, and the office manager ran my name through the internet and called the police saying I was a child molester. The police showed up based upon that claim, and they treated me quite harshly. It turned out that the person who really was the child molester had a name which was 1 letter different than mine, and he was black as black gets. I never got an apology from the police. If that molester had been white, they would not have realized the mistake and I would have been in deep doo doo.
So.. with big charges, comes a big threshold for accurate and credible evidence.
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I have two real examples of how such thinking could have gone very wrong:
So.. with big charges, comes a big threshold for accurate and credible evidence.
The bolded is correct. That doesn't prove or disprove anything. What your saying is the law works fine and so we can proceed to execute criminals for executable offences.
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I have two real examples of how such thinking could have gone very wrong:
So.. with big charges, comes a big threshold for accurate and credible evidence.
The bolded is correct. That doesn't prove or disprove anything. What your saying is the law works fine and so we can proceed to execute criminals for executable offences.
Don't make statements about what I am saying.. especially when that is NOT what I am saying at all.
The low does not work fine. The police are incompetent and corrupt.. as is the judicial system.
What I'm saying is that before even considering executing someone, there must be a competent and fair judicial system. That has never existed.
This goes back to what #1 was saying.. in that he agrees with the death penalty in theory, but not in practice. If the system of justice was fair and competent, then he would be OK with executions. I'm not OK with executions under any circumstances. For one thing dead people feel no pain nor remorse. -
I have two real examples of how such thinking could have gone very wrong:
1. ….f that girl had any credibility at all, my dad would have been put in jail. It was so absurd that the police laughed at her.2. …It turned out that the person who really was the child molester had a name which was 1 letter different than mine, and he was black as black gets. I never got an apology from the police. If that molester had been white, they would not have realized the mistake...
So.. with big charges, comes a big threshold for accurate and credible evidence.
Is this what you're talking about?
In both scenarios, everything worked out fine. The second assertion is speculation and justification for white privilege. The law worked (except for our made up black man).
Be careful in naming yourself number two unless you're just taking the piss out of number one. ::)
The rest of what you said is fine. We disagree. The justice system isn't perfect and can never be. Now tell me how you feel about the number of repeat offenders and their victims? Lord knows I've had to talk endlessly about the people I've hypothetically killed, it's your turn.
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If you want to whine about ad hominem attacks, maybe you should go back and reread your posts, especially to me.
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You are willing to execute innocent men to prevent some other men from committing a crime, but you can't see how fucked up that is.
You don't care about fixing prosecutorial misconduct, etc, etc, etc. You just want to punish innocent men. Misandry much?
You are willing to ignore police corruption like we saw in the OJ case. You don't give a fuck that police plant evidence. You don't give a fuck that evidence was left to cook in a hot crime scene van. Not to mention all the other shit that happened in that case.
Your stance is also extremely classist since only the extremely wealthy can afford a good legal team to keep them out of prison, let alone being executed. We could also call it racist since, as we here from black identitarians, "POCs" are poor and whites are wealthy.
You still haven't answered the question. In your mind, saving the life of 1 person is worth how many lives of innocent men? What's the acceptable ratio for you?
Are you gonna follow feminists and say that for every 1,000 rapes, we need to imprison 1,000 men, regardless of the fact that most rapes rape part of a serial thing, not one-off rapes? Ok yeah, that changes with the modern redefining everything rape, but that is a different thread.
Are you gonna go down the JUST BELIEVE route, despite the fact that we know that people lie?
You don't want to execute people for being gay, but you want to execute people for simply existing because someone else might commit a crime.
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What makes me a better person than you is that I'm not willing to trade innocent lives in hopes that it prevents crimes.
"The Boy Next Door" serial killer killed at least 10 people in about 4 different states. Chicago PD was gonna pin it on someone else, which you would support because, in your warped mind, it would stop the real killer or someone else from committing a crime. Even the LAPD pinned it on the wrong guy, but let him out of jail when more murders happened with the same MO. Catching the real killer was a fluke and linking him to the other cases was even a bigger fluke. You'd be happy if 10 people got executed for the 10 known murders he committed.
I'm also against willful wrongdoing in the "justice" system, unlike you.
In every scenario you used, I'm not willing to trade innocent lives in hopes it prevents crimes. As fucked up as the crimes you used are, it's even worse to murder innocent men in hopes that it prevents crimes they had nothing to do with.
You support murdering innocent men. I do not.
You want to take the focus off murdering innocent men because it does make you look like a vile asshole. "Don't look at that part, just think of the victims it'll save". Umm, feminists use that exact same argument to justify their JUST BELIEVE bullshit. You and they, both, have a totally fucked up way of "crime prevention".
Oddly, you don't use actual crime stats and target the people with the highest violent crime rates and murder the entire group. Of course, this would be RACIST, but does that really matter in your worldview of crime prevention? 3% to 5% (13-40 yo black males) of the US population commit 50% of all the violent crime.
This links into your stance on abortion. You don't care about abortion being a racist issue (not even counting the "blacks are weeds that need exterminating" comment of PP's founder). Blacks have the highest abortion rate.
So, why are you so scared to be in favor of killing blacks men en masse, but you have no problem with blacks having abortions at such high rates?
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If you want to whine about ad hominem attacks, maybe you should go back and reread your posts, especially to me.
Show me. Show my ad hominem attacks. I'll wait. I want to see them.
What makes me a better person than you is that I'm not willing to trade innocent lives in hopes that it prevents crimes.
Your words continue to just blow me away.
Every SJW and feminist you despise speak in the exact same way. Do you really not see how you are the very people claim to hate? I've yet to see you rise above them – and I've been waiting.
In every scenario you used, I'm not willing to trade innocent lives in hopes it prevents crimes. As fucked up as the crimes you used are, **it's even worse to murder innocent men in hopes that it prevents crimes they had nothing to do with. **
Three pages of discussion and you finally answer the question I posted at the beginning of page one. Thank you. You want the guilty to roam free. I could do more with this. Maybe later.
You are willing to execute innocent men to prevent some other men from committing a crime, but you can't see how fucked up that is.
You don't care about fixing prosecutorial misconduct, etc, etc, etc. You just want to punish innocent men.
ok at that part, just think of the victims it'll save". Umm, feminists use that exact same argument to justify their JUST BELIEVE bullshit. You and they, both, have a totally fucked up way of "crime prevention"._You ware willing to set guilty men free to prevent the possibility of an innocent man going to prison setting up the situation for innocent people outside the prison to be attacked, murdered, robbed but you can't see how fucked up that is.
You don't care about fixing prosecutorial misconduct, etc, etc, etc that frees these assholes. You just want to free guilty men.
Okay at that part, just think of the rare innocent man not being jailed. Umm, feminists use that exact same argument to justify there SJW agenda. You and they, both, have a totally fucked up way of "protecting people"._
And so with this kind of rhetoric, we can go round and round in circles and accomplish nothing. Or, you could leave your baggage at the door; you could stop trying to associate feminism with Every Single Argument; and you could stop making untrue allegations – I don't advocate murdering or incarcerating innocent men.There's not much more to discuss in what you wrote. You feely ignore most of what I write, so no guilt on my end.
I await the list of my ad hominem attacks.
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Are you really that pathetic that you don't realize what you said? For one, you called me a teenager. But whatever, we'll just let you run with it to justify your call to execute innocent men.
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Umm, you and they (SJWs and feminists) want to imprison/execute innocent men.
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LOL, you want to murder innocent men, but I'm the bad guy in your fucked up head.
You haven't called for fixing the "justice" system like I have. Instead, you call for murdering innocent men.
You think that murdering innocent men (let us not play the politeness game of calling "executing", it's murder) because someone else might be prevented from committing a crime.
You are advocating murder by proxy.
I honestly hope someone you care about is murdered for a crime they didn't commit.
Do you masturbate to stories of lynchings? It's the same thing you are advocating, just done by the state.
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Are you really that pathetic that you don't realize what you said? For one, you called me a teenager. But whatever, we'll just let you run with it to justify your call to execute innocent men.
I see. You don't know what an ad hominem argument is. I'm not trying to attack your character to win an argument – I'm not even trying to win. Up to this point, I've more or less curious just how it is you present your ideas. I said the way you speak here is like a teenager, or that I have no proof that you're not a teenager based on how you argue. That's true. I've given you several suggestions to help you sound more adult.
In short, you threw out hackneyed insults and thought you made a point. You didn't. Worse, you didn't improve yourself or me.
What I see is a very young person who uses the exact same logic patterns of the people they claim to be against -- It's boring. -- we're going round in circles, and so you and I are done with this topic.
(On the plus side, when you agree with someone you write reasonably well. Work on how you disagree.)
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AH, so you claim that your "teenager" comments aren't ad homonyms, are you sure you're not an SJW?
Ok, oh superior one (rolls eyes in disgust) you are praised for your insulting comments about me, that you deny are ad homonyms.
BTW, you act like a child, but that's not an insult, just a fact.
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AH, so you claim that your "teenager" comments aren't ad homonyms, are you sure you're not an SJW?
Ok, oh superior one (rolls eyes in disgust) you are praised for your insulting comments about me, that you deny are ad homonyms.
BTW, you act like a child, but that's not an insult, just a fact.
You were burned in the post before. Very good burn. Insult but not insult at the same time. He is right, no integrity.
This topic is kind of dumb because nothing can be changed but interesting because very different views.
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@Icc:
AH, so you claim that your "teenager" comments aren't ad homonyms, are you sure you're not an SJW?
Ok, oh superior one (rolls eyes in disgust) you are praised for your insulting comments about me, that you deny are ad homonyms.
BTW, you act like a child, but that's not an insult, just a fact.
You were burned in the post before. Very good burn. Insult but not insult at the same time. He is right, no integrity.
This topic is kind of dumb because nothing can be changed but interesting because very different views.
The one burning is you, Icc. There is a big RED fire burning below your name. You should win some prize for being the biggest vagina on the site. Nobody has been able to get such a miserable reputation so fast. You only have 350megs of uploads and 1 GB of downloads. Why are you even on this site?
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@Icc:
AH, so you claim that your "teenager" comments aren't ad homonyms, are you sure you're not an SJW?
Ok, oh superior one (rolls eyes in disgust) you are praised for your insulting comments about me, that you deny are ad homonyms.
BTW, you act like a child, but that's not an insult, just a fact.
You were burned in the post before. Very good burn. Insult but not insult at the same time. He is right, no integrity.
This topic is kind of dumb because nothing can be changed but interesting because very different views.
At least I'm not a coward who's afraid to state my views.
You only pop in to sling a few insults at those who aren't SJWs like yourself, but you are too much of a coward to state your views on any topics.
:police: As I said before, either leave this section or post something worthwhile. If not, you could get muted for posting spam. :police:
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@Icc:
AH, so you claim that your "teenager" comments aren't ad homonyms, are you sure you're not an SJW?
Ok, oh superior one (rolls eyes in disgust) you are praised for your insulting comments about me, that you deny are ad homonyms.
BTW, you act like a child, but that's not an insult, just a fact.
You were burned in the post before. Very good burn. Insult but not insult at the same time. He is right, no integrity.
This topic is kind of dumb because nothing can be changed but interesting because very different views.
The one burning is you, Icc. There is a big RED fire burning below your name. You should win some prize for being the biggest vagina on the site. Nobody has been able to get such a miserable reputation so fast. You only have 350megs of uploads and 1 GB of downloads. Why are you even on this site?
Cuz the download rules here suuuuuuuuuuuck. 12 points a day? Cap the number of downlaods? Upload but almost no credit? Tried to get points in the forum but that suuuuuuucks too cuz people most here are aholes ina circle jerk. Been reading posts in the car with my friends making fun of you all bcuz your all so pround of what you write but zero sense.
Wanna view? DP is rare. The system is unfare bcuz white priv and money and so you wont be affecte anyway.
Next step youll call me names and blow eachother.
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@Icc:
@Icc:
AH, so you claim that your "teenager" comments aren't ad homonyms, are you sure you're not an SJW?
Ok, oh superior one (rolls eyes in disgust) you are praised for your insulting comments about me, that you deny are ad homonyms.
BTW, you act like a child, but that's not an insult, just a fact.
You were burned in the post before. Very good burn. Insult but not insult at the same time. He is right, no integrity.
This topic is kind of dumb because nothing can be changed but interesting because very different views.
The one burning is you, Icc. There is a big RED fire burning below your name. You should win some prize for being the biggest vagina on the site. Nobody has been able to get such a miserable reputation so fast. You only have 350megs of uploads and 1 GB of downloads. Why are you even on this site?
Cuz the download rules here suuuuuuuuuuuck. 12 points a day? Cap the number of downlaods? Upload but almost no credit? Tried to get points in the forum but that suuuuuuucks too cuz people most here are aholes ina circle jerk. Been reading posts in the car with my friends making fun of you all bcuz your all so pround of what you write but zero sense.
Wanna view? DP is rare. The system is unfare bcuz white priv and money and so you wont be affecte anyway.
Next step youll call me names and blow eachother.
LOL, too stupid to realize just how much of a hypocrite you really are.
If the site sucks as much as you claim, then leave. No one is holding you hostage.
So, you are one of those anti-white racists we've been talking about. Great, good to know.
It's funny how you try to insult me when my veiws on the justice system would help non whites, whereas you are siding with a person who doesn't care how many innocent people are killed by the state. Of course, you are too stupid to see that.
I do get it though, you are butthurt about your not being able to download porn, so it's the white man keeping you down. Poor, poor thing.
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