Civility Poll
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I will just say that much good could be accomplished by deleting threads and posts that lack any topical political content, and only seek to antagonize, belittle or insult those with differing views.
A policy to toss any thread that focuses on "tards," "turds" or "bats" would be a fine place to start. :cheers:
The problem with that idea is that almost all of the threads that lack any topical political content and contain false statements and are spam are created by the "tards", "turds", and "bats". In other words.. you.
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Please take the time to respond to this poll. I, along with others, feel like this forum is completely out of control. It has gotten so toxic that a user has resorted to attacking underage children with highly disgusting and offensive comments. There were multiple calls not to politicize a recent shooting in America involving a Congressman and several others for at least 24 hours and people decided to politicize it anyway. This is serious. It should not be this hard to remain civil, especially when it comes to tragedies. I admit, even I have gotten in heated discussions on here and have said stupid things, but I have realized that constant name calling and other childish behavior does not help anything. Beyond that, the point of debating about politics is to not only establish your position on different topics, but to defend your position and explain why you believe the opposing position is wrong. Name calling does not accomplish that point. Deflecting does not accomplish that point. We need a reset on here and I don't know if that requires more rules or what, but something needs to change because this is ridiculous. There's a reason why the most recent forum posts were removed from this site's homepage, because toxicity level of this politics thread was offending people coming to the site.
Your poll is an excellent example of how polls can be so biased and misleading.
You offered two choices - with interpretations attacked to them.
A. Yes, I believe the name calling and spamming is out of control
B. No, being uncivil is the only way I can get my point acrossI would tend to say "A", however, I don't think it is out of control. The people doing it are the moonbats, and they just make fools of themselves doing it. The moonbats have called Trump everything imaginable with little or no facts to back it up, threaten his life, threaten his family, scare his 10 year old boy with a completely realistic image of his father's severed head, called the boy autistic, called for Trump's impeachment, etc. If being called a moonbat to put a label on those lunatics posting that garbage offends them.. Boo hoo! I'll send you a box of Kleenex. I would suggest that these people go plant their turnip in a mine field.
"B" is what the moonbats should select, but none of them will - because they are spineless slugs.
The basic issue is.. the Cretans do not like to be called out and identified. They would prefer to live in a cave.. attack anonymously.. and never be held accountable for their nasty attacks.
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My new signature, to me, is to promote a resistance to the staus quo and that to truly move on we must find some form of common ground and use it to start building better dialogue.
The image itself, the word, even the color choice are both associated with Antifa and Communism.
Look up "resist" on google images. These images are similar, and they are all associated with far-left, often violent rhetoric.
So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.
Look, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that all of these choices may have been unintentional and/or subconscious. But if you're going to continue insisting that simply pointing out these obvious associations is me "just making a huge assumption" about you, and not simply pointing out clear associations; if you're going to continue trying to gaslight me into thinking like I'm trying to pull some armchair psychoanalyst crap here;
Then I'm going to have to tell you to fuck right off with your intellectually dishonest uncivil horseshit.
But of course, I don't want to do that, I DO want things to be more civil around here.
We can start here. Whether intentional or not, your banner conveys far left extremism that is not AT ALL conducive to civil dialogue between people of opposing views.
I have one thing to add to your comment.
It's not so much a dialogue between people of opposing views. It's a battle between people who make things up, twist facts, omit facts, ignore facts, and have a bone-deep desire to harm President Trump and undermine anything he does, no matter what he does.
I would suggest these people go play on Facebook, where that kind of behavior is rewarded. Facebook is extremely left wing - and probably the worlds largest data mining operation. They have become the "NSA" that is not governed by anybody, and operates outside of any legal jurisdiction. At the moment, Facebook has gotten away with doing anything they want. Very few people know this, but tracking cookies in your computer are sent to websites you visit. It is illegal for websites to archive those cookies linked to your accounts and ip address… EXCEPT with a very few exceptions.. including FACEBOOK. That bozo Zuckerberg didn't get $45 billion in his pocket by selling soap or appliances or digging ditches. He got it from having a monopoly on the personal information of it's subscribers, and selling it to anybody who pays for it. I would LOVE to see someone ask Fuckerberg how he made all that money.. what is being sold.. who is paying it? -
My new signature, to me, is to promote a resistance to the staus quo and that to truly move on we must find some form of common ground and use it to start building better dialogue.
The image itself, the word, even the color choice are both associated with Antifa and Communism.
Look up "resist" on google images. These images are similar, and they are all associated with far-left, often violent rhetoric.
So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.
Look, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that all of these choices may have been unintentional and/or subconscious. But if you're going to continue insisting that simply pointing out these obvious associations is me "just making a huge assumption" about you, and not simply pointing out clear associations; if you're going to continue trying to gaslight me into thinking like I'm trying to pull some armchair psychoanalyst crap here;
Then I'm going to have to tell you to fuck right off with your intellectually dishonest uncivil horseshit.
But of course, I don't want to do that, I DO want things to be more civil around here.
We can start here. Whether intentional or not, your banner conveys far left extremism that is not AT ALL conducive to civil dialogue between people of opposing views.
I am not changing my signature banner because that's not why I made it. If you feel that way, then that's on YOU. I have never said anything in support of Antifa or the far left; therefore, I do no support them. I have been VERY outspoken against liberals committing violence to prevent free speech. VERY OUTSPOKEN. I have also called out BLM on here multiple times and have said they need to be criticized more. I have stated that social platforms like YouTube and Facebook unfairly target conservatives and remove their content no matter what the intention, yet leave up far-left things and never remove far-left extremist, even when they make threats. You have absolutely no proof that I have taken up for Antifa or the far-left or that I made my banner with them in mind. Stop making huge assumptions or you indeed are trying to bring incivility to this thread. You cannot deem something I made as far left extremism unless you have damning proof that I support far left extremism. I have freedom of expression and I created that banner to tell everyone here to resist the status quo and let's start, no matter who we are, a foundation to build on to encourage more civility. Sorry, but you don't get to tell me what something I created is or isn't.
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My new signature, to me, is to promote a resistance to the staus quo and that to truly move on we must find some form of common ground and use it to start building better dialogue.
The image itself, the word, even the color choice are both associated with Antifa and Communism.
Look up "resist" on google images. These images are similar, and they are all associated with far-left, often violent rhetoric.
So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.
Look, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that all of these choices may have been unintentional and/or subconscious. But if you're going to continue insisting that simply pointing out these obvious associations is me "just making a huge assumption" about you, and not simply pointing out clear associations; if you're going to continue trying to gaslight me into thinking like I'm trying to pull some armchair psychoanalyst crap here;
Then I'm going to have to tell you to fuck right off with your intellectually dishonest uncivil horseshit.
But of course, I don't want to do that, I DO want things to be more civil around here.
We can start here. Whether intentional or not, your banner conveys far left extremism that is not AT ALL conducive to civil dialogue between people of opposing views.
I am not changing my signature banner because that's not why I made it. If you feel that way, then that's on YOU. I have never said anything in support of Antifa or the far left; therefore, I do no support them. I have been VERY outspoken against liberals committing violence to prevent free speech. VERY OUTSPOKEN. I have also called out BLM on here multiple times and have said they need to be criticized more. I have stated that social platforms like YouTube and Facebook unfairly target conservatives and remove their content no matter what the intention, yet leave up far-left things and never remove far-left extremist, even when they make threats. You have absolutely no proof that I have taken up for Antifa or the far-left or that I made my banner with them in mind. Stop making huge assumptions or you indeed are trying to bring incivility to this thread. You cannot deem something I made as far left extremism unless you have damning proof that I support far left extremism. I have freedom of expression and I created that banner to tell everyone here to resist the status quo and let's start, no matter who we are, a foundation to build on to encourage more civility. Sorry, but you don't get to tell me what something I created is or isn't.
I think your banner is good.. because it clearly indicates your perspective on things. If that's what floats your boat.. fine.
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So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.
Also, there are many resist banners of different types and colors so it doesn't matter what colors I used, you most likely would have pulled this same stunt. Here are examples of what showed up when I clicked on your Google search link:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/RESIST_digital_1200x1200_8.png
http://i3.cpcache.com/product_zoom/2044095010/resist_womens_light_tshirt.jpg?color=LightPink&c=false
https://resistmedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/RESIST-Logo-Large.png
https://secure3.convio.net/gpeace/images/content/pagebuilder/Banner_870x215.jpeg
https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/120724/screenshots/3261034/resist-flag.jpg
http://murverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/developers-will-resist.gif
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/691718142842818560/M4uF-40W.jpgAre all of those only in black and red? There was actually only 4 results on the first page of black and red resist banners, and most of the fists are of the left hand and not the right. The fist in mine is a right hand fist, not left.
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I've updated my signature to better show what my intent was, as I explained, to resist the status quo on here so that we can start a foundation to build better dialogue. It is NOT a message to resist those who oppose me. It is NOT a message about resisting the president. It is NOT a message in support of communism, the far-left or Antifa. I am a freaking free speech loving Christian capitalist for Christ's sake :laugh: Liberal is not synonymous with far-left extremism, it's just one way to define one portion of our very large and complex political spectrum.
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I've updated my signature to better show what my intent was, as I explained, to resist the status quo on here so that we can start a foundation to build better dialogue. It is NOT a message to resist those who oppose me. It is NOT a message about resisting the president. It is NOT a message in support of communism, the far-left or Antifa. I am a freaking free speech loving Christian capitalist for Christ's sake :laugh: Liberal is not synonymous with far-left extremism, it's just one way to define one portion of our very large and complex political spectrum.
Liberal didn't USED to be synonymous with the far-left.. but it has become that way because the looney left has dominated the media (eg: Seth Myers, Don Lemon, Stephen Colbert, Rachel Madcow)
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While it appears that most (of the dwindling number of) posters in Politics & Debate would like to see more civility, I'm afraid that the discussion has been sidetracked by all the back and forth about one poster's choice of graphics.
I was hoping that the thread would open a discussion on HOW to actually achieve more civility. The current, largely unmanaged and consequence-free state of affairs here is unlike any I have encountered on other gay sites (torrent or otherwise) that engage in political discourse.
Is it any wonder that so few GT members choose to participate here?
.
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While it appears that most (of the dwindling number of) posters in Politics & Debate would like to see more civility, I'm afraid that the discussion has been sidetracked by all the back and forth about one poster's choice of graphics.
I was hoping that the thread would open a discussion on HOW to actually achieve more civility. The current, largely unmanaged and consequence-free state of affairs here is unlike any I have encountered on other gay sites (torrent or otherwise) that engage in political discourse.
Is it any wonder that so few GT members choose to participate here?
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Yes, it's very petty to derail this thread with communist accusations and other nonsense, but we can't let that defeat the purpose of this thread. We'd all like to see less name calling and more efforts to understand and ultimately respect our different opinions. That was my main point when I said in this thread that we have to stop assuming the absolute worst about each other based off of our own personal assumptions. We won't get anywhere with baseless bickering and ludicrous assumptions.
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I propose we all come to an agreement on 1) no more wild accusations on what we feel someone's intentions are until after a debate; 2) absolutely no more deflection and derailment to stop a debate, it's annoying and just plain wrong; 3) clearly state your argument and defend it without personal/childish attacks; 4) no more spamming, posting the same topic over and over again in the same day; 5) no more attributing the actions of one person to an entire population of people, no one person represents millions of people unless you're talking about an elected official representing his/her constituents; and 6) address one another by our usernames and no more referring to each other with childish names like cuckservative or moonbat. These are just a few of my suggestions and I hope others will post their own suggestions.
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I propose we all come to an agreement on …
rc, I agree with virtually all your points, but at the same time, I'm certain that a minority of our posters would never, ever voluntarily agree to such improved behavior.
This is why forums have administrators and moderators, whose role is to maintain order; and, when necessary, warn and then ban posters who repeatedly violate good conduct via their rudeness, name calling, etc. You need look no further than earlier in this thread to find an example.
There's an abject lack of that needed enforcement occurring here, and as a result, this Politics & Debate board largely fails in its purpose.
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Clearly many of these comments are directed squarely at me, so I'll respond.
Don't be hypocrites.
If you call me a racist for pointing to 2 recent proven lies a Congressman told, don't get butt hurt when someone says something bad about you.
You don't get to claim your enemies are X, then get butt hurt when they do it to you.
You don't get to call your enemies "alt-right", then cry when you are called a bike lock liberal.
You don't get to call your enemy stupid, then report them for calling you an idiot in response.
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,…......................
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Clearly many of these comments are directed squarely at me, so I'll respond.
You don't get to claim your enemies are X, then get butt hurt when they do it to you.You don't get to call your enemies "alt-right", then cry when you are called a bike lock liberal.
You don't get to call your enemy stupid, then report them for calling you an idiot in response.
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,…......................
raphjd, what we DO get lately is virtually zero action, from a moderation viewpoint, to discourage the flaming and nonsensical rants that make many of us on the Politics & Debate board feel as if the loudest and angriest posters are running the asylum.
After reading your post, do you feel that your role is simply to make a list of slights from both sides, implying that all can carry on, because this is the new normal?
It wasn't that long ago that you wrote a very fine policy for conduct in the thread "Forum rules condensed":
https://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=20604.0 – as follows:
_"Derailing conversations, to complain about topics or individual posters, is not allowed.
If your post adds no value to the overall conversation, it will be treated like spam."_
The civility and quality of content on this board has clearly devolved since your December 2016 post. I appreciate the time involved in upholding this rule, and clean-up will be tough now – the result of letting the worst posts go unchallenged over these months.
Even so, you strike me as a man of your word. Can you stand behind your forum rule, and start taking concrete actions going forward, to enforce the rules prohibiting crude, taunting and off-topic debris?
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So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.
Also, there are many resist banners of different types and colors so it doesn't matter what colors I used, you most likely would have pulled this same stunt. Here are examples of what showed up when I clicked on your Google search link:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/RESIST_digital_1200x1200_8.png
http://i3.cpcache.com/product_zoom/2044095010/resist_womens_light_tshirt.jpg?color=LightPink&c=false
https://resistmedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/RESIST-Logo-Large.png
https://secure3.convio.net/gpeace/images/content/pagebuilder/Banner_870x215.jpeg
https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/120724/screenshots/3261034/resist-flag.jpg
http://murverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/developers-will-resist.gif
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/691718142842818560/M4uF-40W.jpgAre all of those only in black and red? There was actually only 4 results on the first page of black and red resist banners, and most of the fists are of the left hand and not the right. The fist in mine is a right hand fist, not left.
The language, the color choice and symbology are INDIVIDUALLY suggestive of antifa and far-left. Just because a resist banner isn't in red doesn't mean it has some alternative meaning. There are clear trends in the elements pointed out associated with the far left. Practically every single example you just posted is anti-Trump rhetoric. Example of greenpeace "Resist": https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/greenpeace-resist-banner-protest-trump.html. Are you gonna claim that the greenpeace "Resist" is something other than it's not?
All of those things you just posted only prove the point: you aren't here for dialogue. You can't claim you want civil dialogue while your signature blatantly signals that you want nothing to do with dialogue. So you are a hypocrite, and I assure you that every single conservative here agrees with me and recongizes your banner for what it is. Most liberals here probably understand your banner too, but won't admit it because tribalism.
Your motion for more civility has failed, because you won't own up to your own incivility and bullshit.
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I was hoping that the thread would open a discussion on HOW to actually achieve more civility.
I already gave several concrete suggestions. It can be summed up as follows: don't be a hypocrite.
Is it any wonder that so few GT members choose to participate here?
No, it's not a wonder at all, it's because they can't. Most gays are vapid and don't have the wherewithal to engage in any kind of discourse other than talking about how kawaii desu Rihanna Spears or whatever. You know it's true.
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So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.
Also, there are many resist banners of different types and colors so it doesn't matter what colors I used, you most likely would have pulled this same stunt. Here are examples of what showed up when I clicked on your Google search link:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/RESIST_digital_1200x1200_8.png
http://i3.cpcache.com/product_zoom/2044095010/resist_womens_light_tshirt.jpg?color=LightPink&c=false
https://resistmedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/RESIST-Logo-Large.png
https://secure3.convio.net/gpeace/images/content/pagebuilder/Banner_870x215.jpeg
https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/120724/screenshots/3261034/resist-flag.jpg
http://murverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/developers-will-resist.gif
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/691718142842818560/M4uF-40W.jpgAre all of those only in black and red? There was actually only 4 results on the first page of black and red resist banners, and most of the fists are of the left hand and not the right. The fist in mine is a right hand fist, not left.
The language, the color choice and symbology are INDIVIDUALLY suggestive of antifa and far-left. Just because a resist banner isn't in red doesn't mean it has some alternative meaning. There are clear trends in the elements pointed out associated with the far left. Practically every single example you just posted is anti-Trump rhetoric. Example of greenpeace "Resist": https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/greenpeace-resist-banner-protest-trump.html. Are you gonna claim that the greenpeace "Resist" is something other than it's not?
All of those things you just posted only prove the point: you aren't here for dialogue. You can't claim you want civil dialogue while your signature blatantly signals that you want nothing to do with dialogue. So you are a hypocrite, and I assure you that every single conservative here agrees with me and recongizes your banner for what it is. Most liberals here probably understand your banner too, but won't admit it because tribalism.
Your motion for more civility has failed, because you won't own up to your own incivility and bullshit.
Does everyone see why this is so difficult? This user is focusing on petty nonsense instead of coming up with better solutions to bring more civility to this forum. I have clearly stated what my signature means and even if I were to change my signature, he would simply find another reason to make ugly broad assumptions about me. It clearly says "resist incivility" at the bottom of my banner. Why, strangeloop, are you so obsessed with associating me to Antifa and the far-left when I have never once on here taken up for them? We have to move on from this kind of behavior if we are to improve the quality of this forum. There has also been major spamming about the Ossoff/Handel special election in Georgia. One thread about the election was actually a real discussion and even I participated in that discussion and everyone who posted in that thread put in thoughtful input (https://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=50768.0).
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Yet again, I have changed my signature banner. Strangeloop, if you find a reason to further link me to Antifa and left-wing extremeism due to what you think my signature says, it's YOU who is being uncivil. I am genuinely trying to make an effort here and you have been counterproductive this whole time with disgusting accusations and obviously bad intentions. And "don't be a hypocrite" does nothing to stop the constant spamming, childish name calling and intentional deflection we've all seen on here. Your deflection and derailment about my banner is a prime example of said behavior.
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@ RoyalCrown89 - The fist picture does have a lot of baggage and that's what the reaction is based on. It's not derailment to complain about the picture in a thread about being civil.
@ Strangeloop - RC is probably the most centrist liberal here. While he may be a bit SJW on some topics, he's far from a bike lock liberal. He advocates for true free speech as defined by the USSC and condemns the violence by both sides.
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It clearly says "resist incivility" at the bottom of my banner.
You didn't initially say "resist incivility" and even if you did, it doesn't change the symbology and association anyway.
No issues whatsoever with your new banner. FWIW thanks for changing.
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