Sodom & Gomorrah - What the bible really says
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**_Bible are written by men of faith and not by men of science
There are so many translations (interpretations) of The Bible through out the years
There are some scientific explanation(s) of how the destruction of S & G came about, but some religious org. chooses to ignore it or how it was impressed to our mind tha Mary Magdalene was a prostitute when in reality she was not_**
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Great topic. love the comments. It made me think about a lot of stuff.
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Crazy.
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Currently in the United States, we have 297 separate forms of Christianity as registered religions.
There are over 76 different bibles for those religions.
Most are just retranslations of the King James version. A few are retranslations of the original language books.Whats really fascinating about the translations is how each different sect can translate to their own slant on the ancient words. To add to the confusion, English is one of the most dumbed down languages on the planet.
Here's an example.
In all the ancient languages like Sanskrit, There is no single word equivalent to the word MAN. The ancient languages were much more precise in describing things. There are almost 100 variations and words that can be transcribed to mean Man but none are as specific as the original meaning. On top of that, the preceding words of the language can greatly alter the meaning of the word that was written.
In many of the dead languages, scientist are still finding new meanings for words that they thought they had it nailed down for centuries.
Add on top of all that a cultural bias and you get what you want from the text.Like the 10 commandments. Did you know that it's not the same from book to book? Catholics have one set of commandments and Protestants have another. Evangelical and some fray religions have even another set.
Its just a big crazy confusing mess no matter what you do. I can understand why all the religions have tried to kill each other over the centuries.
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An Anglican priest in Australia put up a sign outside his church calling the Australian government minister in charge of immigration a sodomite. He explained that according to a correct reading of the bible, the "sin of sodom" is not a man having sex with another man. The sin of sodom is inhospitality.
"The sin of Sodom is greatly misunderstood by those who usually choose to do so, it has nothing to do with homosexuality, it is all about hospitality, or more to the point lack thereof, and particularly about the condition of the heart that leads to inhospitable behaviour," Fr Bower said in the post.
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**_Bible are written by men of faith and not by men of science
There are so many translations (interpretations) of The Bible through out the years
There are some scientific explanation(s) of how the destruction of S & G came about, but some religious org. chooses to ignore it or how it was impressed to our mind tha Mary Magdalene was a prostitute when in reality she was not_**
The region has major methane pockets. This was one of these that released in an earthquake that caused Jericho to blow up and burn.
I love Israel Finkelstein (archeologist). He's a jew that looks for things in the bible/torah, but says that science is the most important thing. He lets the facts tell the story, whether it agrees with his religion or not. He's done several documentaries on his own and been in nearly 100 others.
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damn i wish i had been part of this discussion.
in my opinion christianity and the bible were founded and written in a contemporary context. no judgement to that. the societies that adopted christianity has profoundly evolved and we live in a completely different world today than the time when christianity was popularised. im glad that some churches of christianity adopts a more liberal approach to the original sin but at the same time all the religiously motivated conversion camp are atrocious and should be illegal in my opinion.
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An Anglican priest in Australia put up a sign outside his church calling the Australian government minister in charge of immigration a sodomite. He explained that according to a correct reading of the bible, the "sin of sodom" is not a man having sex with another man. The sin of sodom is inhospitality.
"The sin of Sodom is greatly misunderstood by those who usually choose to do so, it has nothing to do with homosexuality, it is all about hospitality, or more to the point lack thereof, and particularly about the condition of the heart that leads to inhospitable behaviour," Fr Bower said in the post.
That isn't actually true. Genesis shows that it was sexual. Ezekiel shows the underlying cause.
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Q: How many men escaped the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah?
A: Certainly, a Lot. -
@raphjd Never complimented you on this article. Here goes. I agree with main point, though not with all side points.
Sodom was derived from the Hebrew word "S'dom," which means "burnt."
That's interesting because "faggot" has a meaning of "A bundle of sticks and branches bound together" - that you throw on a fire ie. burnt.
Various stories say how "faggot" came to mean "sexually subordinate male" but I figure it's another time homophobes connected gay bottoms to Sodom.
Why is it that we are told that the bible is an accurate written copy of the precise oral tradition when they can't even remember the actual names of the 2 cities?!
Easy to explain: the disaster made an impression. Bible isn't that precise, has many times when something is renamed after big event, and sometimes, old name is forgotten or left out.
bring them out so they could "know" them. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing exactly what "know" means in this situation
To me, "interrogate" them - like "get to know them, with undertone of suspicion or threat of violence" - is most natural & plausible reading.
No where does it say what the sex of the angels are
That's interesting. Bible usually represents angels as male, when on Earth. But as you say, it's unspecified here - and IF the angels were represented on Earth as female this time, then Lot offering his 2 daughters under a sexual interpretation starts to make more sense.
"anshei ha'ir, anshei S'dom" means "the people of the city [not only men]
Very interesting, if true.
You'd think that with all the fire and brimstone raining down...
This gets us to the scientific part. Sodom's destruction was more a 3900C flash event. (Could have rained stones in outlying areas.)
First - Bible's internal geographic indicators strongly put Sodom at North East end of Dead Sea.
https://www.amazon.com/Discovering-City-Sodom-Fascinating-Testaments-ebook/dp/B008J2BQTA
Known to 19th century scholars. Then 20th century scholars decided to put Sodom at south end of Dead Sea. That view still lives among 21st century scholars - but not all - pendulum begins to swing back.
And indeed there is a key ruin at NE end of Dead Sea, now called Tall El Hammam.
And it was destroyed roughly 3700 years ago by meteor airburst like Tuskunga of 1908.
Here is the paper, written by astrophysicists (NOT Steven Collins):
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3
The question is not whether it happened. The paper went through unusual extra rounds of peer review after people kept questioning it. And survived.
The question, rather, is whether it is correct to move Abraham & Lot into same era & location & thus identify Tall El Hammam with Bible's "burnt - a ruined heap" city.
I say yes. Arguments exist on both sides. But arguments on the "no" side tend to be regressive misunderstandings of the "yes" side by people who simply hate Bible & want it to be 100% myth.
In a generation or two, I think identification of Tall El Hammam with Bible's "burnt - a ruined heap" city will be taken as obvious.
Thus, it will be (or maybe is already) impossible to call Sodom's existence & destruction a myth.
Still the question remains of WHETHER GOD destroyed Sodom and if yes, WHY. Let's get back to that.
Ezekeiel 16:49 says "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." Again, no mention of homosexuality.
Yes. Well, you must continue into verse 50 which says people did "detestable things". But again, that could mean anything. Still no specific reference to homosexuality.
Matthew 10:14-15 is a quote from Jesus...
Correct. Christ's quote links Sodom to the idea of deep inhospitality - cruelty to the needy & stranger - not to sex.
Judges 19:13-27...
That story, to me, is a little more obviously sexual.
Homophobes often forget how NORMAL, yet still potentially-disgraceful or sometimes-disgraceful, male-homosexual acts are in ancient & Middle Eastern cultures.
Guys will toss each other off, may even fuck each other secretly. But public rape - str8 rape or gay rape - Very disgraceful to victim (female or male) as it shows their powerlessness......and, since it shows cruelty & inhospitality, somewhat disgraceful to the rapist too.
So story in Judges is about cruel public rape.
We can agree that all rape is wrong - whether it's adults having sex by force, or people molested when they are unable to meaningfully consent (kids, needy subordinates, elders in decline, the dead).
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This is way too much reading for me (ironically my best friend is an avid reader!)
I would point out that until very recently, there were very limited means of contraception. Because of that, heterosexuals would routinely engage in anal and oral sex as a substitute for vaginal sex. Even today, many people who are not fans of contraception use anal sex as an alternative.
I think the bible is not picking on homosexuals that much.. but instead on the practice of sodomy / anal sex between a man and a woman.
They probably considered homosexuality to be a sacrament reserved for the clergy to have sex with young boys. -
@lololulu19 "Too much reading" - Agree - I skimmed most of it - only responded to @raphjd original piece - which was thoughtful & interesting - whereas other comments here tend to change subject or be a different level.
Bible clearly grates on some people - which is OK in big picture, like "you do you" - but I slightly wonder why such people are in the thread, except maybe just to piss in it.
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@blablarg18 agree 100%
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