Gay and Muslim
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You can't be muslim if you ignore the absolute perfect word of god.
I guess I can claim to be a buddhist, despite the fact that I don't follow it's teaching.
I can claim to be the King of Siam, but it doesn't make it true.
If that now nearly 60yo man, can be a 6yo girl and Shaun "Talcum X" King can be black, then I guess there can be gay muslims.
When mt nephew said he was a doctor last weekend, I guess he really was, despite not having started 1st grade yet. He was a fireman a few days before that.
A century ago most people in MENA were illiterate, were there no Muslims if religiosity was based on hearsay?
To your point about the literal word of god, that is true if you look at the belief system in its entirety but ultimately what matters is how millions of people perceive themselves and project that on to the world.
It is most definitely harder to reconcile who you are and who your belief system wants you to be when the texts are supposed to be the literal word of god and there is an emphasis on being a perfect being. But it is not impossible.
The original question was "Gay and Muslim" and not "Gay and Islam". Followers of other Abrahamic religions reconcile the two things, so why can't individual Muslims? Sure others aren't usually as rigid but does that matter for the individual who is contravening a core portion of their belief system and whose religiosity is questioned by the other followers of said religion? An LGBT-affirming evangelical is still an evangelical even if most of their peers think they're an unbeliever.
This is a valid point:
Religion is a social phenomenon learned within social groups.
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I will say it again.
There are thousands of gay Muslims. There are gay friendly mosques. There are queer Muslim support and activist groups. Islam has a long history of tolerance of homosexuality before political changes in the late 20th century. These are undeniable facts.
That you can't be gay and Muslim is an opinion made clearly false by these facts.
Continuing to hold an opinion that is contradicted by facts is insanity, but all too common among conservatives. After all, many still believe things like Obama is a Muslim and that Japan applies a "bowling ball" test to American car imports.
After all, isn't everyone entitled to their own opinion? Aren't people entitled to their opinions that 1 + 1 = 346, the best place to grown pineapples is Antarctica and the moon is made of margarine?
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Nope enough.
You are claiming to be an expert on Islam, Islamic exogesis, and Quran. There are standards.
You have said that the Quran states that Allah forbids homosexuality. Here is a site with various English translations of the Quran. Tell all of us which verse(s) state some version of 'man shall not have sex with other man'. Having read and taught the Quran I say that it's interpretation but you insist that it's explicit - put your money where your mouth is.
You've stated that Muslims believe that the word of Allah as being put forth in the Quran is the authority. Please identify the Islamic jurists who state this in each of the four main Sunni madhabs as well as the main Shia groups. I think that they use Ahadith, analogy, and cultural norms as sources for religious laws and as the basis for the interpretation of those (very) few laws put forward in the Quran.
I'm neither a Liberal (the political party Justin Trudeau heads) nor a liberal. I'm just tired of conservatives making up their own facts, lying their heads off, and not shutting up when it's pointed out that: Coronavirus exists, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was created by the Russian secret police, the Earth is more than 6,000 years old, vaccines don't cause Autism….
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I recommend that you ask a gay Muslim why your opinion about Islam is so wrong.
You could of course just Google what gay Muslims and gay Imams say.
Though I happened to mentioned something about this weird phenomenon of atheists and christians claiming to know more about Islam than Muslims do to a good friend who is both Muslim and gay. To summarise the answer, the Quran says God is merciful and God is compassionate a huge number of times, I think he said 150 or something. He said that overrides anything else and that there is nothing that clearly condemns homosexuality anyway.
And PS, I notice you've fallen for your own propaganda about the two 15 year old "gay" men supposedly hanged in Iran for being gay. They were actually convicted or raping a 10 year old boy and it was never established that they were gay.
https://76crimes.com/2019/06/13/iran-defends-harsh-laws-but-does-it-execute-men-for-homosexuality/
Also, giving the example of ISIS (an organisation who's highly heterodox interpretations of that Quran were condemned by nearly every Islamic scholar and leader in the world and is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslims), executing gay MUSLIMS, doesn't really help your argument does it.
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I'm From Brazil and i'm not undestanding all this discussions.
Yeah, muslins in general are homophobes and there are extremist muslin groups that kill queer people in the name of religion.
But
I live in a christian country and Brazil alone kills more queer people than all Middle East countries together.
So what? Where's all the lecture about christians being radical bloody assassins of queer people too?
I don't see any difference of muslins from protestants (evangélicos pentecostais e neopentecostais no Brasil).
Remember they are 1/3 of the world population, if they were all terrorists like it sounds in this discussion the world would have already ended.We don't need fingers pointed to each others face, but a social culture that stimulates respect and sufocates any prejudice that comes with religion.
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(Agnosthic here)
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This discussion is about "gay and muslim" so that is why it is the focus.
I still think the way the discussion developed it's a bad way.
Instead of stimulates people to change the strutures of their religion I have only seen finger pointed and posts that can be resumed to "muslins are evil and vile, gay muslins either" in a website with a big arabic forum right there, indicating that are way more gay muslins then we can see.I undestand that you dislikes religious stuff, but I don't think this way it's a good way to talk about these subjects.
(And i feel some prejudice in your speech, I say it as a outside viewer, that is non-european, non-british, non-muslin, non-religious at all, a way different context with no terrorist attacks and no middle east immigrants).
I don't know if my post will contribute here, but I felt someone should post it.
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Islam is the only religion that beheads gays and throws them off buildings, whilst being completely true to the spirit and letter of its sacred text.
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I couldnt undertsand. I am a muslim. But i believe that what is the Allah's reason to created us be like that? Some muslims say like that "this world is testing zone who is praying allah and being good person, who will be go to heaven. And some person came to world with some problem like blind or cripple. That is the real test for him or her. And if they handle it thoose problem they will go to heaven" Being gay is test for people who is gay. But i am gay and also i will be gay in the future. I cant do anything about it.
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@matie I saw this topic and came here to express my experience with a ''straight muslim POC'' (black/brown - half african/half arab from what i understand).
this dude added me on snapchat, from the map.
he had few snap points and clearly an islamic name
i asked ''hi why u add me?''
he said ''u gay?''
i said ''maybe wtf? who are you?''
he said ''fuck u gay bitch and some arabic text i dont know what that was''
i unfriended and blocked him.
(i uploaded a snap story with a rupaul's iconic moments)
.......
for this to happen in 2021 in europe...what have you done shitlibs
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@di3di3di3 As a gay Muslim and a POC, I'm sorry to hear that
The Quran 104:1 said, "Woe to every scorner and mocker." And even if you're right and they're wrong, it is still a sin to mock people, because it is arrogance. -
True! Islam is a violent religion towards gays, women and infidels
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