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    Not only is Obamacare a disaster.. so is Medicaid.

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Politics & Debate
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    • raphjdR Offline
      raphjd Forum Administrator
      last edited by

      The UK varies by "country".

      England and Wales used to force you to pay upfront if you had any assets.  This included forcing you to sell your house, even if one spouse was still living in it.    Now they wait until both spouses die and take their 100 pounds of flesh.

      Of course, this only applies to government funded places.  Private facilities do their own thing, which almost always means paying upfront or being chucked out.

      As expected, the number of government beds is falling short of need and getting worse every day.

      Ain't socialism so much better than capitalism.

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      • FrederickF Offline
        Frederick
        last edited by

        @raphjd:

        The UK varies by "country".

        England and Wales used to force you to pay upfront if you had any assets.  This included forcing you to sell your house, even if one spouse was still living in it.    Now they wait until both spouses die and take their 100 pounds of flesh.

        Of course, this only applies to government funded places.   Private facilities do their own thing, which almost always means paying upfront or being chucked out.

        As expected, the number of government beds is falling short of need and getting worse every day.

        Ain't socialism so much better than capitalism.

        The stereotype of English people is that they have lousy teeth - poor dentistry.  It goes beyond that.  I lived in England for 8 months, and Norway for about a month.  I have never seen so many people with massive scars, missing limbs, missing eyes / eye patches, etc.  Socialized healthcare is a disaster.  One example I often give people is that in England, you often have to wait 6 months to see a doctor.  If you have cancer, and have to wait 6 months to see a doctor, then what WAS a treatable / survivable cancer is terminal and a death sentence "gee, too bad you didn't go to a doctor 4 months eariler!"

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        • A Offline
          aadam101
          last edited by

          Doctor shortages is a totally separate issue that needs to be addressed.

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          • T Offline
            TroopK
            last edited by

            I have read some nonsense in this topic but rarely as silly as this.

            I have lived in England slightly longer than 8 months and have never seen any massive scars, by definition I haven't seen missing limbs, but I have seen three people with amputated legs, and have never seen anyone with an eye patch.

            I can make an appointment online to see a GP for tomorrow. And the question of money will never come up.

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            • FrederickF Offline
              Frederick
              last edited by

              @aadam101:

              Doctor shortages is a totally separate issue that needs to be addressed.

              There's no shortage of doctors.  There is a shortage of doctors who do 40 hours of work a week.

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              • A Offline
                aadam101
                last edited by

                @Frederick:

                @aadam101:

                Doctor shortages is a totally separate issue that needs to be addressed.

                There's no shortage of doctors.  There is a shortage of doctors who do 40 hours of work a week.

                Once again you are making a great case as to why single payer is a better option.  Doctors don't work 20 hours per week because they are paid too much money.  Pay them less  under a single payer system and they will work more.

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                • FrederickF Offline
                  Frederick
                  last edited by

                  @TroopK:

                  I have read some nonsense in this topic but rarely as silly as this.

                  I have lived in England slightly longer than 8 months and have never seen any massive scars, by definition I haven't seen missing limbs, but I have seen three people with amputated legs, and have never seen anyone with an eye patch.

                  I can make an appointment online to see a GP for tomorrow. And the question of money will never come up.

                  At first, I was going to say "what's the difference between missing limbs and amputations?"   What I MEANT was amputations.. however, there are a lot of people in England with the birth defect of missing limbs due to the medication "thalidomide" which is banned in the USA.  When pregnant women take "thalidomide" the babies sometimes have tiny flippers instead of arms and / or legs.  
                  By scars, I meant that in the USA, surgical procedures are usually done in a way that leaves only a tiny scar, or no scar at all, and if necessary plastic surgery is used to eliminate the scar.  In Europe.. when someone has surgery, you know it, and the scars are quite visible.

                  I wonder what city in England you lived in… ?

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                  • FrederickF Offline
                    Frederick
                    last edited by

                    @aadam101:

                    @Frederick:

                    @aadam101:

                    Doctor shortages is a totally separate issue that needs to be addressed.

                    There's no shortage of doctors.  There is a shortage of doctors who do 40 hours of work a week.

                    Once again you are making a great case as to why single payer is a better option.  Doctors don't work 20 hours per week because they are paid too much money.  Pay them less  under a single payer system and they will work more.

                    I think you are assuming what I think is good health care. 
                    I don't pretend to have the ultimate answer to healthcare, but what I CAN say is that Obamacare is a DISASTER.. and CAN'T continue. 
                    Also.. by work.. I meant actually working.. doing stuff.  I used to install computer systems for medical billing in doctor's offices.  There are some doctors who work non-stop all day long.. one patient after the next.  That is unusual.  There are a lot more doctors who spend the day trying to avoid patients as much as possible.

                    But.. on your theme of what doctors are paid… my father's 2 day hospital stay was $50,000 for the 2 days laying in bed under observation by nurses..  and another $28,000 for the ONE HOUR that the doctor spent performing the actual procedure.  Running the IV during the procedure for anesthesia was $5000.

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                    • A Offline
                      aadam101
                      last edited by

                      I think it depends on the type of doctor.  A resident can work 18-20 hour shifts.  A chiropractor may work 10-4 and take every Friday off.

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                      • T Offline
                        TroopK
                        last edited by

                        Thalidomide has not been available in the UK since 1961

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                        • F Offline
                          flozen
                          last edited by

                          @TroopK:

                          Thalidomide has not been available in the UK since 1961

                          The topic of thalidomide still resonates with me, as I was born only a year after it was taken off the market.  And during college in Florida I had a British classmate who had been a "thalidomide baby," with the ensuing birth defects.

                          The U.S. was largely spared the drug's devastating effects through the work of Dr. Frances Oldham Kelsey, who took on the pharmacy giants when she had too many unanswered questions about the brand-name version in a sedative called Kevadon, which reached her desk for review at the FDA in 1960.

                          Dr. Kelsey passed away only recently (2015) at the age of 101, and her obituary provides a window into that different era, and personal details about a lesser-known hero of modern medicine:

                          https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/science/frances-oldham-kelsey-fda-doctor-who-exposed-danger-of-thalidomide-dies-at-101.html

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                          • A Offline
                            aadam101
                            last edited by

                            Now it all makes sense! Frederick is a time traveler!

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                            • U Offline
                              USHorizon
                              last edited by

                              Either that or he just believes conservative ideology.

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                              • FrederickF Offline
                                Frederick
                                last edited by

                                @USHorizon:

                                Either that or he just believes conservative ideology.

                                Trump is not a conservative.. in fact, conservatives spent over $100 million to prevent Trump from becoming president because they say he is not conservative enough.

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                                • S Offline
                                  spam17
                                  last edited by

                                  @Frederick:

                                  @USHorizon:

                                  Either that or he just believes conservative ideology.

                                  Trump is not a conservative.. in fact, conservatives spent over $100 million to prevent Trump from becoming president because they say he is not conservative enough.

                                  ;D

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                                  • S Offline
                                    spam17
                                    last edited by

                                    @aadam101:

                                    I think it depends on the type of doctor.  A resident can work 18-20 hour shifts.  A chiropractor may work 10-4 and take every Friday off.

                                    ++1

                                    😉

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                                    • U Offline
                                      USHorizon
                                      last edited by

                                      @Frederick:

                                      @USHorizon:

                                      Either that or he just believes conservative ideology.

                                      Trump is not a conservative.. in fact, conservatives spent over $100 million to prevent Trump from becoming president because they say he is not conservative enough.

                                      I don't know. He sure surrounds himself with racists and white nationalists, and they've been seen hanging around conservative camps for a few decades now. Seems pretty conservative to me.

                                      Not to mention, the GOP health care program, which he flipped to heavily endorse, is really just a smoke screen for tax cuts for the wealthy. And that's like Reagan-philia 101 for contemporary conservatives.

                                      So he's got the cultural conservatism and the financial conservatism…if we can even call it conservatism. Sounds like just ridiculous stupid political maneuvering to me that ultimately undermines any notion of a multi-racial democracy.  But who am I to judge?

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                                      • FrederickF Offline
                                        Frederick
                                        last edited by

                                        @USHorizon:

                                        @Frederick:

                                        @USHorizon:

                                        Either that or he just believes conservative ideology.

                                        Trump is not a conservative.. in fact, conservatives spent over $100 million to prevent Trump from becoming president because they say he is not conservative enough.

                                        I don't know. He sure surrounds himself with racists and white nationalists, and they've been seen hanging around conservative camps for a few decades now. Seems pretty conservative to me.

                                        Not to mention, the GOP health care program, which he flipped to heavily endorse, is really just a smoke screen for tax cuts for the wealthy. And that's like Reagan-philia 101 for contemporary conservatives.

                                        So he's got the cultural conservatism and the financial conservatism…if we can even call it conservatism. Sounds like just ridiculous stupid political maneuvering to me that ultimately undermines any notion of a multi-racial democracy.  But who am I to judge?

                                        You got that right.. who are you to judge?  You are just a delusional moonbat.

                                        As far as racism goes.. Obama hates white people.. and surprisingly, hates black people as well.  The only people Obama benefited were muslims and terrorists.    Lest we forget that the democratic party was the party of the KKK back in the days when they would lynch black people and burn crosses on their lawns.   Hillary Clinton proudly eulogized hard core, high ranking Klan leader and Senate troll Robert Byrd brain.. calling him her mentor and dear friend.   Another of Hillary's idols was this bitch whose lifelong goal was abortions on a massive scale, eugenics to reduce the population, and declared that black people were nothing more than "weeds".  And then there was the schmearming of Bernie Sanders as being a jew.. and stealing the nomination from him.

                                        You are filling the shoes of DrWuss very well.. suspiciously well.

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                                        • A Offline
                                          aadam101
                                          last edited by

                                          The KKK Democrats are the same people who call themselves Republicans today.  They changed parties during the war.  Stop spewing lies.

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                                          • U Offline
                                            USHorizon
                                            last edited by

                                            @Frederick:

                                            @USHorizon:

                                            @Frederick:

                                            @USHorizon:

                                            Either that or he just believes conservative ideology.

                                            Trump is not a conservative.. in fact, conservatives spent over $100 million to prevent Trump from becoming president because they say he is not conservative enough.

                                            Hmmm…I smell a bit of Fox with a hint of Breitbart brewing.  Perhaps some Infowars sprinkled on top, too.  This guy--so funny!
                                            I don't know. He sure surrounds himself with racists and white nationalists, and they've been seen hanging around conservative camps for a few decades now. Seems pretty conservative to me.

                                            Not to mention, the GOP health care program, which he flipped to heavily endorse, is really just a smoke screen for tax cuts for the wealthy. And that's like Reagan-philia 101 for contemporary conservatives.

                                            So he's got the cultural conservatism and the financial conservatism...if we can even call it conservatism. Sounds like just ridiculous stupid political maneuvering to me that ultimately undermines any notion of a multi-racial democracy.  But who am I to judge?

                                            You got that right.. who are you to judge?  You are just a delusional moonbat.

                                            As far as racism goes.. Obama hates white people.. and surprisingly, hates black people as well.  The only people Obama benefited were muslims and terrorists.    Lest we forget that the democratic party was the party of the KKK back in the days when they would lynch black people and burn crosses on their lawns.   Hillary Clinton proudly eulogized hard core, high ranking Klan leader and Senate troll Robert Byrd brain.. calling him her mentor and dear friend.   Another of Hillary's idols was this bitch whose lifelong goal was abortions on a massive scale, eugenics to reduce the population, and declared that black people were nothing more than "weeds".  And then there was the schmearming of Bernie Sanders as being a jew.. and stealing the nomination from him.

                                            You are filling the shoes of DrWuss very well.. suspiciously well.

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