Universal Health Care

mhorndisk

Obamacare is not Health Care. It is a TAX. I believe the Supreme Court said that. Trump's plan of Healthcare Savings Plans is much better because you don't actually lose the money you invest each year and it just ads up, which is particularly good when you are young and healthy. Under Obamacare, it's gotten so expensive that nobody can afford it. It will implode. I've known doctors who hated it so much they moved out of the country. Insurance was started by the King of Spain (or England) can't remember, when ships were being decimated by the High Seas, and the King needed to promote trade, so he opted a plan that would allow them to go into the sea without the full risk. This is NOT insurance, period. Obamacare is a total disaster, and again, not insurance. It's a tax. And why should I have to pay for illegal immigrants to have FREE healthcare. Just look at California, a total disaster, hospitals being shut down constantly because of it.

raphjd

The UK has an NHS and it's falling apart, despite throwing tons of cash at it.

You need private health insurance if you want to be seen within a reasonable amount of time. If I didn't have private insurance, I would have been dead back at the end of 2008.

I have permanent nerve damage in both my hands because my, then, GP refused to refer me. After 20 month of this, he went on vacation and his replacement referred me.

I have sciatica and I have no idea when I'll see a specialist, since I no longer have private insurance. I have to take several pain pills every day and inject muscle relaxer into several spots on my leg 6 times a day (and even at night).

Dene

@jbo1:

I think eventually Canada will be forced to adopt a two-tier system. IMO the hybrid or multi-payer systems in the UK, Australia, France or Germany seem to fare better in terms of cost and delivery of service.

Agreed - I think though the issue with some of the countries, where the hybrid is happening, is the creep is happening - meaning the balance of the hybrid is out of whack, so people feel paying for health via taxes is useless

Dene

@raphjd:

The UK has an NHS and it's falling apart, despite throwing tons of cash at it.

You need private health insurance if you want to be seen within a reasonable amount of time. If I didn't have private insurance, I would have been dead back at the end of 2008.

I have permanent nerve damage in both my hands because my, then, GP refused to refer me. After 20 month of this, he went on vacation and his replacement referred me.

I have sciatica and I have no idea when I'll see a specialist, since I no longer have private insurance. I have to take several pain pills every day and inject muscle relaxer into several spots on my leg 6 times a day (and even at night).

Australia is the same issue - but it has not hit things so drastically, yet. I say yet, because I fear we are going the same way.

magentas

mhorndisk, you did not read anything I wrote, or address anything I wrote. All you did is repeat standard right-wing propaganda.

raphjd, if it was not for Obamacare, I would be dead right now, since insurance companies would not accept people with pre-existing conditions.

And you also did not address what I wrote.

Police and fire are emergency services, paid by taxes. Why not medical care?

raphjd

I don't need private fire or police insurance to get them to help when needed.

NHS systems are failing all over the world. They are extreme money pits that bleed the tax payers dry.

Think about it.

Under the NHS, you pay extremely high taxes and you still need medical insurance.

magentas

@raphjd:

I don't need private fire or police insurance to get them to help when needed.

That did not answer the question, it simply stated the current reality of the system, followed by your talking points, showing you missed the point.

THINK about the topic before replying.

Should the police and fire departments be privatized, and people have to pay for them on a case by case basis?
Or, does it make more sense that we ALL pay for them collectively, in our taxes, even if we never need them?

So, why not, for example, Ambulances? Why do we have to pay for an ambulance to take us to the hospital?

raphjd

How sad, another one demanding people do exactly what they demand.

Liberals sure have 'tude.

Higgs

I have lived all my life in countries with various forms of "single payer" healthcare systems. The point I would make is that there is huge diversity between different systems. Americans sometimes speak of "single payer" systems as though they are all the same. But in fact they are very different: France and the UK, for instance, both have a "single payer" model but it works in very different ways. The one thing that virtually all of these systems have in common is that they are more economically efficient than the American model, which even under Obamacare seems to represent the worst of both worlds: limited coverage, sub-optimal outcomes and maximum cost.

Really the argument you should be having is not simply whether you want a government-operated model, but what sort of government-operated model is likely to best meet the needs and desires of Americans.

aadam101

@raphjd:

I don't need private fire or police insurance to get them to help when needed.

NHS systems are failing all over the world. They are extreme money pits that bleed the tax payers dry.

Think about it.

Under the NHS, you pay extremely high taxes and you still need medical insurance.

Fair enough but the insurance system in the US was failing long before ObamaCare. It's a money pit that bleeds the middle class dry. Think about it. Under insurance you pay extremely high premiums and deductibles and we still have worse health outcomes than most other developed countries.