UC Berkeley at it again
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The "patriarchy" is the feminist version of the boogey man.
Women are the biggest voting block and they could do anything they wanted if they voted en mass. Blame women for not voting for Hillary's vagina.
Justin Trudeau talked about how hard it is to get women to run for politics and he's n uber feminist cuck.
Society treats men like shit at every turn, but it's "patriarchy".
Just because you are a self hating feminist, doesn't mean that feminists tell the truth. With all the laws in just the US alone about equal pay, feminists should have plenty of exact proof that they can point to rather than vagueries and stats that run counter to official US government departments.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that you probably only know about gender issues as spoon fed to you by feminists. You probably don't know about gender biased issues outside of the bullshit your friend and other feminists have told you about.
I bet that you didn't know that in India, the law says that women can not commit domestic violence and any sort of sex crime. Back in 2012/13 when they tried to change this, feminists lost their fucking minds and put a stop to it.
There are countless issues in the UK that are totally pro-women and feminists fight to maintain those special rights, while fighting to make things worse for men. Despite all the laws about gender equality in the UK, the official judges' rulebook, aka Bench Book, states in both the equalities and sentencing section that women must be treated extremely leniently in all areas of court proceedings, especially in sentencing.
The US feminist campaign RAPE IS RAPE, fought to expand the definition of rape. They also fought to include male rape victims in FBI crime stats, but they lost their shit when the FBI wanted to include ALL male rape victims. In the end, the FBI (under Obama the cuck), it was agreed that women can't victimize men.
Anyone who claims "patriarchy" can fuck off.
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The "patriarchy" is the feminist version of the boogey man.
Women are the biggest voting block and they could do anything they wanted if they voted en mass. Blame women for not voting for Hillary's vagina.
You apparently don't understand what "patriarchy" is or how it works. Straight from Wikipedia:
"Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property…Historically, patriarchy has manifested itself in the social, legal, political, religious and economic organization of a range of different cultures. Even if not explicitly defined to be by their own constitutions and laws, most contemporary societies are, in practice, patriarchal"
Patriarchy isn't about blaming men. It's simply identifying which gender has more power, status, and/or privilege. And men have more. You can justify it all you want. You can blame whoever you want. But it's not Boogeyman, when we've had 45/45 Presidents be male and yet females make up about 50% of the population
And yes, females keep females down, and that is mostly due to a patriarchal cultural system that programs and influences values in favor of men. It's clearly not due to nature, so that means it's due to nurture. That means it's due to US--SOCIETY.
Justin Trudeau talked about how hard it is to get women to run for politics and he's n uber feminist cuck.
And why do you think that is? Given how females used to often rule tribes before the rise of the more militaristic patriarchal tribes that started taking over the world, it's obviously not due to nature. That means it's product of cultural systems which then go on to raise and indoctrinate future generations (males and females) with certain values, ideals, beliefs, opportunities, etc.
Society treats men like shit at every turn, but it's "patriarchy".
A society that treats men like shit (it hasn't treated me like shit at all, so I think "at every turn" is an overstatement) still doesn't negate the existence of patriarchy.
Just because you are a self hating feminist, doesn't mean that feminists tell the truth. With all the laws in just the US alone about equal pay, feminists should have plenty of exact proof that they can point to rather than vagueries and stats that run counter to official US government departments.
Did you mean self-hating male? lol. I love being male, and I would never want to be female precisely because I know females have it worse. If you had the choice, I doubt you'd choose being female over male–let's be real.
Laws are critical for more equality, but they hardly guarantee equal treatment. Are you really that naive? There's the enforcement of laws, there's the entire culture of a nation, there's value systems and beliefs where people literally can't see or understand problems and deny their existence (like sexism, racism, homophobia, etc.), etc.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that you probably only know about gender issues as spoon fed to you by feminists.
Actually I studied masculinity too. I did take a class on feminism and that helped wake me up. But being gay obviously got me thinking about the subtle ways culture, values, beliefs, etc. create systems of privilege and power and how subtle and invisible they often are to people who don't think critically about cause and effect on a wider level.
What are your personal qualifications of knowing about gender issues? What makes you an expert and so quick to deny what feminists say?
You probably don't know about gender biased issues outside of the bullshit your friend and other feminists have told you about.
We can always point to how males and/or females are treated badly with specific cases. The existence of Patriarchy or sexism against female doesn't negate the existence of sexism against males. You seem to think that any injustice done to Republicans/men/white people/etc. automatically negates injustices done to other groups and vice versa. It doesn't. Fighting injustice against minorities, females, immigrants, etc. shouldn't be considered an attack Republicans/men/whites/etc! We're all supposed to be in this TOGETHER.
The only way that it possibly is a bad thing to remove these injustices is if you're viewing this with a scarcity mindset as a zero-sum game where anything good happening to others means it's hurting you. More equality only hurts you, if you had no intention of wanting an equal, fair, or merit-based world in the first place. If you are all for selfishness, entitlement, privilege, and power–then yes, I guess you could say helping others, fighting injustice, etc. hurts you. Is that the case? Is that how you think?
I bet that you didn't know that in India, the law says that women can not commit domestic violence and any sort of sex crime. Back in 2012/13 when they tried to change this, feminists lost their fucking minds and put a stop to it.
No I don't know, and I think that's a tangent that's not particularly relevant to the issue of patriarchy. But I'll certainly look at it if you give me a link to that topic
There are countless issues in the UK that are totally pro-women and feminists fight to maintain those special rights, while fighting to make things worse for men.
How so?
Despite all the laws about gender equality in the UK, the official judges' rulebook, aka Bench Book, states in both the equalities and sentencing section that women must be treated extremely leniently in all areas of court proceedings, especially in sentencing.
That may very well be true, but that certainly doesn't negate the existence of patriarchy. Again, this world is filled with multiple injustices. There are many things that are against BOTH females and males. It's not 1 or the other. Females or people outside of your specific social groups are NOT your enemies. Injustice is your enemy. To the extent you want to further perpetuate it is the more injustice, hate, division, and extreme counter-measures tend to occur.
The US feminist campaign RAPE IS RAPE, fought to expand the definition of rape. They also fought to include male rape victims in FBI crime stats, but they lost their shit when the FBI wanted to include ALL male rape victims. In the end, the FBI (under Obama the cuck), it was agreed that women can't victimize men.
Again, it doesn't negate the existence of patriarchy. But feel free to provide proof for this
Anyone who claims "patriarchy" can fuck off.
Why do you think that examples of injustice to men somehow negates the existence of injustice to females. I mean it seems to be your main argument for everything against social groups you identify with is that somebody from another social group is doing your social group wrong. So that means they are EVIL BAD PEOPLE TRYING TO KEEP YOU DOWN but your group is full of sweet innocent angels that can do no wrong! It's so black and white–this or that. Have you not realized that humanity is full of flaws and injustice is everywhere?!? That bad things can happen to multiple groups all at the same time and that all people have good/bad sides to them and manage to fuck each other over both intentionally and unintentionally? That's why we need more people to take accountability and pursue higher values than revenge, tribal-like thinking, etc.
It's not just about kumbaya to feel good. It's in our self-interest to uphold a moral social contract. When we don't do that and pursue unapologetic selfishness, that just erodes the foundation of social cooperation and creates more division and internal war. That is in none of our self-interest, and then we ALL get less and less of what we want.
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By "at it again" I assume you mean teaching the actual truth and defending basic freedoms.
The right wing bullshit in this forum is getting pretty thick.
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The "patriarchy" is feminist bullshit, at best. It's used to man bash at every turn.
If anything, society is man hating. We treat women better than men at every turn. Medical and social funding massively favors women.
The west, whether officially or unofficially, uses the Duluth Model of domestic violence which dictates that even in the face of extreme evidence, the man is always guilty.
Women have nothing better to bitch about than "man-spreading" and the like. Oddly, women are far worse at spreading out on public transport than men could ever dream of.
YES, there are some GOOD feminists, but the extreme vast majority of feminists absolutely hate them. Christina Hoff Sommers and others like her are decent feminists.
The fact that you ran to Wikipedia to find out the definition of patriarchy show you don't know anything about feminism or you are part of their lie.
More proof that feminism is nothing but man hating is the lie that it's about GENDER EQUALITY. Anyone who spent an hour researching feminism would have to be a total idiot if they still believed that lie. There has never been a feminist campaign that benefited men only to make us equal to women.
AGAIN, women are the biggest voting block in every western country, meaning that anything they decide to do en mass will be done. Hillary could have been elected by women and there is nothing men could do about it. Add all the cuck votes in and it's the biggest landslide the world has ever seen.
It's extremely telling how you, like all the other "normal" feminists dismiss facts because they don't gel with their religion.
In the 30 years I've been debating feminists, the only feminist that I respect is a 12yo (she might be 13 now) girl from Somalia, now living in the US. She didn't automatically reject things that disagreed with her beliefs. She understood that I hate feminism because of feminists. It was great talking to her. If we're lucky, in about 10 years, she'll be the new Christina Hoff Sommers.
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@raphjd The way you endlessly repeat your prejudices as if they were some sort of logical argument is very tiresome - which, naturally, predisposes me to believe that YOU are very tiresome. Police that.
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The "patriarchy" is feminist bullshit, at best. It's used to man bash at every turn.
It's not bullshit. 100% male Presidents. Approx. 50% gender divide. Male bashing doesn't eliminate or justify injustices to females. Your inability to sympathize with the plight of others only leads to contributing to a world where nobody is going to care about issues affecting you. You want the world to care about your problems, but you dismiss the problems of others and actively contribute to the world's.
You'll dislike me for saying this (no doubt dismissing any personal responsibility as you've done this entire time), but basically I can now say you definitely have an entitled, self-centered, victim-oriented, scarcity-based mindset. You lack basic emotional intelligence and empathetic skills, and the reason why you probably are being "bashed at every turn" probably has nothing to do with being male and everything to do with you being selfish and caustic and everybody is just giving you the same treatment back.
Instead of trying to rise to the best version of yourself and make the world a better place, you prefer to sink to the lowest level justifying all kinds of bad behavior by looking at and mirroring all the worst parts of humanity and then positioning yourself as the ultimate wronged victim who now has a license to contribute to the world's wrongs, because you think pointing out somebody worse somehow eliminates your own social responsibilities.
You're basically a leech on society, you create problems rather than solve them, you're highly negative and bitter, and basically I bet you kind of hate yourself on some level as there's clearly a lot of projection going on. I hope life turns around for you, and you become a better version of yourself, because right now you're doing neither yourself or society any favors. I do believe you've struggled in life and you're angry and frustrated for a reason, but I think your values/intent are completely misguided and your belief/interpretations/perspective completely deluded
The fact that you ran to Wikipedia to find out the definition of patriarchy show you don't know anything about feminism or you are part of their lie.
That was just to reference a well-known popular source of information (in other words–not some extremist fringe feminist source) for YOUR edification--not mine.
More proof that feminism is nothing but man hating is the lie that it's about GENDER EQUALITY. Anyone who spent an hour researching feminism would have to be a total idiot if they still believed that lie. There has never been a feminist campaign that benefited men only to make us equal to women.
Well even though it's about gender equality, it's specifically more about correcting and rebalancing power, because females are in the subordinate position generally speaking. Unfortunately, to rebalance power, that IS an attack of male privilege/power, which clearly you view as an attack or a weakening of your own power. But since you didn't EARN certain gendered privileges, and since presumably a decent human being would want to promote a society of relative justice versus a more dog eat dog world (in which you'd get trampled on even more if you think the issues you've been bitching about are bad), that's just a part of shared sacrifice. Male entitlement is precisely a mechanism and symptom of patriarchy that keeps women down.
That doesn't make me a man hater, because I'm willing to give up power I didn't earn for others. In my mind, it's in our self-interest to genuinely pursue a society that truly embodies values such as justice, merit, consistency, etc. When we don't uphold those values, we simply open the door and justify all the wrongs that come our way as well. But in any case, I understand what kind of person you are now, so these conversations are going nowhere
AGAIN, women are the biggest voting block in every western country, meaning that anything they decide to do en mass will be done. Hillary could have been elected by women and there is nothing men could do about it. Add all the cuck votes in and it's the biggest landslide the world has ever seen.
It's extremely telling how you, like all the other "normal" feminists dismiss facts because they don't gel with their religion.
No the funny thing is I agree with you on that particular fact. The one doing the "dismissing" is you. Did you even UNDERSTAND what I was saying? The fact that women could POTENTIALLY be the biggest voting block, and STILL we haven't had 1 female President just goes to show how entrenched patriarchy is. When women are so completely divided and mentally subordinated where they don't WANT to run for President, they don't WANT to elect a female to be President, etc. that tells you that they have been disenfranchised by culture itself
True feminism doesn't argue that males keep females down (which is what I think you think they believe). True feminism believes social structures keep females down. And those social structures include other females keeping females down. So your points only serve to complete validate my argument not detract them
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@raphjd The way you endlessly repeat your prejudices as if they were some sort of logical argument is very tiresome - which, naturally, predisposes me to believe that YOU are very tiresome. Police that.
Umm, this is forum spam, since it adds no value to the conversation and is nothing but a personal attack.
Rather than posting personal attacks, try proving me wrong.
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If you stopped all your self hatred cuckery, you would see that women aren't the victims you constantly claim they are.
They don't care about gender representation in the scummy jobs. They just want it for all the good jobs.
I am glad that you admit that feminism isn't about gender equality, but female special rights.
You'll dislike me for saying this (no doubt dismissing any personal responsibility as you've done this entire time), but basically I can now say you definitely have an entitled, self-centered, victim-oriented, scarcity-based mindset. You lack basic emotional intelligence and empathetic skills, and the reason why you probably are being "bashed at every turn" probably has nothing to do with being male and everything to do with you being selfish and caustic and everybody is just giving you the same treatment back.
You are so comical, besides being an internet shrink.
By saying that, you have called me a feminist.
Instead of trying to rise to the best version of yourself and make the world a better place, you prefer to sink to the lowest level justifying all kinds of bad behavior by looking at and mirroring all the worst parts of humanity and then positioning yourself as the ultimate wronged victim who now has a license to contribute to the world's wrongs, because you think pointing out somebody worse somehow eliminates your own social responsibilities.
I'm an Egalitarian. Then again, feminists and their cucks hate non feminists.
You're basically a leech on society, you create problems rather than solve them, you're highly negative and bitter, and basically I bet you kind of hate yourself on some level as there's clearly a lot of projection going on. I hope life turns around for you, and you become a better version of yourself, because right now you're doing neither yourself or society any favors. I do believe you've struggled in life and you're angry and frustrated for a reason, but I think your values/intent are completely misguided and your belief/interpretations/perspective completely deluded
LOL, so says the feminist cuck.
That was just to reference a well-known popular source of information (in other words–not some extremist fringe feminist source) for YOUR edification--not mine.
Maybe you should research wikipedia and feminists editing.
Feminists need to invent things that oppress women so they stay relevant. They don't fight for things outside of the west. NO, instead they fight to maintain their privilege over men in the west.
Feminists need to pull fire alarms to prevent talks about men specific health issues. They need to protest and riot to prevent a talk about male specific suicide. Who's the victim here? That's right, as a feminist cuck, you will say the women are the victims.
You ignore or dismiss cases where men are clearly at a disadvantage to women, because you feel that women need more special rights and privileges over men, in the guise of gender equality.
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If you stopped all your self hatred cuckery, you would see that women aren't the victims you constantly claim they are.
You saying that makes me think you completely don't understand my position.
I never claimed that ALL women are victims. Feminism, racism, etc. in their truest academic forms (although we can agree that the execution of these principles can be done poorly) is about fighting inequality. It's about dismantling the systems that prevent individual merit from thriving and which reward/hurt social groups based on superficial differences and prejudices based on laziness in drawing clear distinctions essentially.
They don't care about gender representation in the scummy jobs. They just want it for all the good jobs.
I am glad that you admit that feminism isn't about gender equality, but female special rights.
That's not what I said. That's how you're interpreting both me and feminism, and it's exactly why I say I don't think you understand the academic argument for feminism. You're falling into the trap of anti-feminist narratives perverting/misrepresenting/misunderstanding the actual original ideology behind the movement which has always been first and foremost about correcting inequality.
If you consider fighting inequality and balancing our unearned privilege to be a "female special right"…well, that's why bigoted people are called "privileged" and "entitled". It means you don't genuinely understand, acknowledge, or appreciate the special rights and advantages afforded to those based on superficial social differences. The point isn't to say that all white/straight/etc. people are ALWAYS better off than their other counterparts.
The point isn't to say that they don't work hard, deserve things, etc. But the point is to be real and admit that in certain ways, certain social groups have advantages that others don't. Just like how groups like females and minorities have their own set of advantages. But let's keep it real and be honest about all of them. Denying them only pisses off those groups. If you think you can deny somebody else's experiences and they're just going to buy into lies that oppression, disadvantages, etc. don't actually exist even though they do...well good luck with that approach.
Truths can't be buried forever with lies, delusion, etc. You may not be willing to acknowledge life's realities, but other people will fight to death over them. We're better off having empathy, acknowledging the various ways ALL social groups suffer and face injustices, and work together to fight this problems together. Pitting groups against one another, playing the blame game, etc. neither solves problems and only serves to divide us and create new ones.
I'm an Egalitarian. Then again, feminists and their cucks hate non feminists.
Denying feminism exists means you're not egalitarian. It's fine to be passionate about male rights and issues, because they do exist. But they exist alongside feminist issues too. Both males and females face their share of inequalities. Their interests aren't diametrically opposed like you keep seeming to position them. They're in many ways aligned. Similar to how Democrats and Republicans SHOULD be working together in theory, but totally aren't due to politics, selfish personal gain, and stupidity.
Maybe you should research wikipedia and feminists editing.
Even if that was feminist editing, the just proves my point. The definitions used by feminism are a lot different from the definitions used by their haters trying to distort their actual message.
Feminists need to invent things that oppress women so they stay relevant.
You're not a female. You've never experienced what a female has so how would you know? I'm not a female, but I've demonstrated the ability to acknowledge the issues that face others. I have yet to see you fight passionately about the issues that affect social groups other than the ones you have affiliation to. It shows a lack of objectivity, an inability to empathize with others, and your high degree of egocentricity.
They don't fight for things outside of the west. NO, instead they fight to maintain their privilege over men in the west.
Isn't that the self-centered Protectionist, privilege-hoarding approach you support given the people you support?
Not that you've shown a propensity for hypocrisy or anything! ;DFeminists need to pull fire alarms to prevent talks about men specific health issues. They need to protest and riot to prevent a talk about male specific suicide.
Source?
Who's the victim here? That's right, as a feminist cuck, you will say the women are the victims.
Like I said before…it can be both. It's not 1 or the other. It's not us vs. them. That's why I accused you of a certain degree of immaturity and simplemindedness. You think of complex life issues in such black-and-white ways, that it's makes you delusional
You ignore or dismiss cases where men are clearly at a disadvantage to women, because you feel that women need more special rights and privileges over men, in the guise of gender equality.
I actually haven't. You've had every opportunity to post links to the issues you rant about. But this topic came about because you were dismissing feminism. Bringing in male issues is an entirely different topic. You thought bringing up male issues was a way to combat feminism, and my point is that's a stupid approach, because the 2 issues aren't against one another. It just shows the tribal way in which you think
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I never denied feminism exists. You do realize that I have been talking about it, so obviously I know it exists. DUH.
You even said that feminism is about (special) rights for women, nothing to do with gender equality.
A man sitting on a subway with hi knees slightly apart (man-spreading) is evil and a feminist issue, but a woman taking up 10 seat with her crap and legs across the seat is a non issue to feminist.
You clearly aren't as clued up as you claim to be. If you were, you'd know about the issues and incidents I've mentioned. In the 3rd picture, is Chanty Binx. The quote is from another event, but the picture is from after they pulled the fire alarm to prevent the men's health talk. YouTube has videos of both incidents I talked about.
LOL, you are such a feminist that you can't even say my position in an honest way. I believe that EVERYONE SHOULD BE TREATED EQUALLY, hence why I'm an egalitarian and not a feminist.
If, as you keep claiming, that feminism is about gender equality, though you seem to change that a it suits you, then why are women only ever concerned about the good jobs, while ignoring the crap jobs? Many feminists have advocated for quotas for good jobs, but they are totally silent when it comes to quotas for the bad jobs.
Feminists are silent on the UK's Bench Book and how if tell judges that they MUST be extremely lenient on women in all areas of court proceedings, especially in sentencing. Feminists are always silent about issues that men are treated unfairly compared to women.
Common men got the vote in exchange for the draft, thank Emmeline Pankhurst for that, amongst other anti-male things like the White Feather. Women got the vote and 100 years later they still don't have the draft. Where are feminists on this issue? According to feminist lies, they'd be out fighting to be part of the draft as well.
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You even said that feminism is about (special) rights for women, nothing to do with gender equality.
Quote please.
You clearly aren't as clued up as you claim to be.
Except I never claimed to be so nope! Nice try! I actually stated that obvious truth that we're not all experts at everything and all of us have blindspots and aren't educated on every single issue in the world.
If you were, you'd know about the issues and incidents I've mentioned. In the 3rd picture, is Chanty Binx. The quote is from another event, but the picture is from after they pulled the fire alarm to prevent the men's health talk. YouTube has videos of both incidents I talked about.
If you were paying attention to anything I said, you'd know that my position is that I'm not arguing in favor of the perverted or extremist versions of certain movements (whether that be a political party or in this case a social group issue). So giving me examples of bad feminism doesn't really negate the academic feminist argument or female issues. Again, your political villainizing tactics are what's being criticized, so continuing to play that same card only serves to highlight your faults.
LOL, you are such a feminist that you can't even say my position in an honest way. I believe that EVERYONE SHOULD BE TREATED EQUALLY, hence why I'm an egalitarian and not a feminist.
Feminism is pretty much for egalitarianism. Feminism is in many ways a subset of egalitarianism deconstructing female issues specifically. However, if you were genuinely for egalitarianism, you wouldn't be mischaracterizing feminism in only its most extreme negative version which is the dishonest or uneducated part of the way you're presenting it.
If, as you keep claiming, that feminism is about gender equality, though you seem to change that a it suits you, then why are women only ever concerned about the good jobs, while ignoring the crap jobs? Many feminists have advocated for quotas for good jobs, but they are totally silent when it comes to quotas for the bad jobs.
How have I changed that? Can you elaborate? Do you have evidentiary support to back up your claims?
Feminists are silent on the UK's Bench Book and how if tell judges that they MUST be extremely lenient on women in all areas of court proceedings, especially in sentencing. Feminists are always silent about issues that men are treated unfairly compared to women.
Common men got the vote in exchange for the draft, thank Emmeline Pankhurst for that, amongst other anti-male things like the White Feather. Women got the vote and 100 years later they still don't have the draft. Where are feminists on this issue? According to feminist lies, they'd be out fighting to be part of the draft as well.
I'm not British, so I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with what you're talking about. Regardless, it goes back to execution of a movement =/= the ideals of a movement and/or bad representations of feminism =/= good representations of feminism.
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Go back and reread. When I said how feminists never fight to bring men up to the same rights/privileges that women enjoy, you said because it was about women, not men.
Since you admit you aren't clued up on the topic, then don't try to tell me about it. You clearly only know the cuckery of feminism, while ignoring the reality of it.
Your stance on feminism tells me you would hate Christina Hoff Sommers and other like her because she/they aren't of the "everything oppresses women" brand of feminism. Feminists protest where ever she speaks because they deem her brand of feminism as hate speech because she doesn't buy into all the bullshit of mainstream feminism.
LIAR. Feminism is only about gaining and/or extending female privilege. Feminism does nothing about gender representation in jobs, except demand quotas in the good jobs, while totally ignoring the shitty jobs or the jobs where women dominate. Throughout a number of threads, I have pointed out countless issues that feminists ignore that men face while focusing on issues where women already have privilege. Feminists created gendered issues against men, like man-spreading, even though both genders do it and the wort examples that feminist can find of men doing it is nothing compared to the worst examples of women doing it.
Feminism is in many ways a subset of egalitarianism deconstructing female issues specifically.
And there you go, you said it again, feminism isn't about gender equality, but rather about women.
You don't have to be British to understand or know about the issues I brought up. The only thing needed is not to be a feminist cuck to understand that feminists are doing nothing to end those special privileges, because gender equality and all that.
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Go back and reread. When I said how feminists never fight to bring men up to the same rights/privileges that women enjoy, you said because it was about women, not men.
Oh okay I see what you're saying. Well yeah obviously feminism isn't exactly the same as egalitarianism. Feminism is the subset branch of egalitarianism that focused on issues that affect females (because females have unique issues that affect them just like males have unique issues that affect them). But men should be concerned about female issues, since they are our wives, daughters, neighbors, fellow citizens, etc. and because if we want females to care about male issues, then we need to be concerned about theirs. It's in all our self interest. So when you talk about "special issues," it sounds like you're doing this in a very disconnected way as if males are doing this humongous favor to women and it's such a burden on us, when really it's in our self-interest to care about society and human virtue.
Obviously everybody could be doing this better. Feminists may need to care about male issues more. You obviously need to care about female issues more. I may need to care about male issues more as you are pointing out. And so on. But to act like we shouldn't care at all about certain issues because our own needs aren't being met to our standards? That seems overly bitter and unproductive to me.
Since you admit you aren't clued up on the topic, then don't try to tell me about it. You clearly only know the cuckery of feminism, while ignoring the reality of it.
I'm not ignoring the reality of it. We're all ignorant on certain things, and that's why discussion and debate can be good because that gives us to clue each other in on our weaknesses and blind spots. Instead of being offended, insulted, and butthurt about it, it's a chance for us all to grow, get educated, and help each other out. Criticism can't definitely be bad, but sometimes it IS constructive. Fragile egos are an insecurity and a weakness not a strength.
Feminism is only about gaining and/or extending female privilege.
I'd imagine females and males have certain advantages and privileges in different areas. For example, we know that females tend to dominate more domestic areas of life based on gender roles. Males tend to dominate just about everything else. The reason why feminism is more prominent than male issues, is because in general, men have the more important advantages and privileges. Of course, this is a generalization and a stereotype, which we must of course be careful about. Clearly there are many men who are less advantages and less privileged than many women. So it's a case by case basis
But if we're talking about the arena of politics for example (zero female Presidents, more men in Congress, females not being allowed to vote until late, etc.), or economics (men getting paid more than women on the whole; more male businessmen; the old boy's network; glass ceilings, etc.), or social issues (females being coerced by society into certain gender roles and expectations, the shit many females go through with rape or relationship abuse, etc.), let's be real…as a whole, the female problems tend to be worse than males. Again, would you prefer to have been born a woman? I know I wouldn't! That's hardly the attitude of somebody who hates men
So no, it's not about gaining/extending female privilege. It's about leveling the playing field and creating a more merit-based open society, which I don't think is a bad thing or against men. It's against inequality and unearned privilege, which is a good thing for society and men as a whole.
Feminism does nothing about gender representation in jobs, except demand quotas in the good jobs, while totally ignoring the shitty jobs or the jobs where women dominate. Throughout a number of threads, I have pointed out countless issues that feminists ignore that men face while focusing on issues where women already have privilege.
Again, because obviously feminism is about focusing on female-centric issues within the egalitarian umbrella. It's like bitching that science doesn't cover economic issues. That doesn't suddenly invalidate science. They're specialized niches within the whole system and we should be learning and concerned with them all. Your mental framework where you feel that we must choose 1 or the other or that helping 1 hurts the other is my big complaint with you and you keep ignoring it.
Feminists created gendered issues against men, like man-spreading, even though both genders do it and the wort examples that feminist can find of men doing it is nothing compared to the worst examples of women doing it.
Of all the issues, personally I find this petty and small. But feminists don't create "man-spreading" which even other guys get annoyed with (including myself). They're pointing out something that happens. And yes both genders do it. Maybe you meant feminists created the term "man-spreading"? Let's be real, men do it more in the sense of males spreading their legs wide open as a form of dominant body language. In my experience, males tend to take up more room than females, and at least where I live, it's not really an issue anyways. This is the 1st time I've even heard of man-spreading.
Again, harping on extremist feminists or going off your own experiences (which while relevant are still limited in the scope of things), isn't really productive and is just like when debaters cherry-pick extreme examples to try making oversized generalizations about bigger issues. Let's be more honest about these issues please instead of trying to "win" some debate.
"Feminism is in many ways a subset of egalitarianism deconstructing female issues specifically."
And there you go, you said it again, feminism isn't about gender equality, but rather about women.
Okay yes, now I get what you're saying. I think where we disagree is that you're acting as if women are demanding "special privileges" or something, when the non-extremists ones simply want the privileges that males already enjoy, which is totally fair. If you want to call females wanting the same things as men "special privileges" then that's where I thought it demonstrated an entitled attitude where you think it's okay for society to justify unearned privileges, a world that promotes injustices over merit, etc. That's not in men's self-interest overall, so that's why I don't consider that a "special interest" for females. Just like "male issues" shouldn't be dismissed by women or good feminists either.
You don't have to be British to understand or know about the issues I brought up. The only thing needed is not to be a feminist cuck to understand that feminists are doing nothing to end those special privileges, because gender equality and all that.
That's fine. I was just giving you full disclosure that this is going to be new ground for me. Again, feminism is focused on female issues. It doesn't mean they ALL don't care about male issues either. It's just not they're focus, because it's hard to fight about ALL of the world's problems all at once. Just like you're clearly not fighting all that hard for female issues or liberal ones. It doesn't mean that feminism is against male issues or gender equality though. That was the entire point of all this. We all have areas that we like to focus on more than others. We should all be learning from each others' problems and supporting them once we get educated on them. Not actively dismissing them and thinking that helping other causes automatically hurts our own. We're all in this together, and if we want to be divided and hate on one another then let's not be surprised when society divides and falls apart which hurts all of us. That's all I'm saying
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LOL. Men should cuck for women, but we can't have our own movement for equality or we are women haters. Feminists claim that by fixing everything wrong in women's lives, everything in men's lives will automatically be fixed as a consequence.
What female issues in the west are there? NONE, except the made up shit by feminists.
You are ignoring the reality of it. With all the laws in the west about equal pay for equal work, there would be, if you listen to feminists and liar/cuck politicians, millions of lawsuits and prosecutions every day for violating the law. It seems like you only know what is taught in gender studies, by a feminist extremist.
The 2% false rape claim came about from a judge reading it in a feminist pamphlet and putting it in a speech. The rest is history. Rebeca Watson says it's 8% but she still says that any man accused should be thrown in prison so we don't victimize a real rape victim. Her justification is that 8% isn't that much. Feminists are universally opposed to prosecuting women how make false rape claims.
We still have western governments doing absolutely nothing for male vicitims of domestic violence and sexual assault/rape. The UK defunded ALL charities specifically for men, but gave women's charities only a 5% cut.
Feminists lie about the tampon tax, well sorta. In the UK, it is taxed at the NECESSITY rate of 5%, not the luxury rate of 20% as claimed. All taxes collected for female hygiene products given to women's charities on top of the traditional government funding. This is common in the EU. Very few things are not taxed at all, this is mostly baby specific items, school uniforms and very, very basic food items.
Women have privileges that far exceed the household, though they do dominate virtually everything in the household. Women earn 37% of household income, while spending 86% of it; excluding traditional bills.
Ultra uber cuck Canada's PM Justin Trudeau (check YouTube for the video) talked about how hard it is to get women to run for politics, even with the promise of a Cabinet position.
The west, officially or unofficially depending on the country, uses the Duluth Model of domestic violence which states that without undeniable evidence, the man is assumed to be the guilty party.
Men earn more because of their career and education choices. If a woman is sitting on her ass at the reception desk at the local council office complaining about men earning more, she could always apply to become a street cleaner or garbage person who make more. Men in full time jobs work more hours than women in full time jobs.
Women in part time work make more than men in part time work.
No matter how you work it, except in HR, you won't get a good job with a gender studies degree.
In medicine, women choose the softer jobs, like techs and nursing. These are the lowest paying jobs in medicine. While brain and heart surgeons make the most and these 2 fields are almost completely men.
Domestic violence and sexual assault/rape are not a gendered issue, despite what feminists claim. In the UK, back in 2005'ish and last year, feminists fought to prevent sex crime from becoming gender neutral. In india there was a push for gender equality in DV and SC, but feminists fought and won so that women can not, under the law, commit either. Israel and other countries have anti-male sec crime laws too.
In the UK, a lot of boys have become "pedo's" because they were under 16 and sex with their under 16 but slightly older girlfriend. This is the only sex crime law in the UK that is gender neutral. ANYONE having sex with a person under 16 is a pedo. HOWEVER, for the first 10 years at least, not a single girl (under 16) was prosecuted for having sex with her under 16 boyfriend. This has created an entire group of males who have had sex with their older and same age girlfriends who are not life long child molesters in the eyes of the law and society.
Feminism has nothing to do with equality, since they always fight against equality. Despite what Chanty Binx said at that men's health lecture, she and her group fought to oppose equal parenting laws in their part of Canada.
Chanty Binx and her lot of feminists pulled the fire alarm to prevent a lecture/talk on men specific health issues. Not surprisingly, they didn't pull the fire alarm the previous month when there was a women specific health lecture/talk. Gotta love the feminist version of gender equality.
There was the near riot because a university was holding a men specific mental health lecture/talk. You can find this and Chanty Binx on YouTube.
Anything and everything that feminists disagree with makes you a rapist, rape apologist, child molester and every other nasty thing they can think to call you.
Quoting a study done by a feminist about women rape victims (theoretically) , makes you a rape apologist. The study found that women said they would be more traumatized by a friend or date raping them than by a stranger.
Women can kill their kids and people say there must be something wrong in her mind, but if a man kids his kids he just fucking evil. This is sorta being discussed in the thread about Rachel Dozeal (sp?).
AGAIN, you are cucking for feminism. Feminism does not care about gender equality unless it's something they deem good for women. They are butthurt about the so called glass ceiling, but ignore the glass bottom that men are under and they refuse to go down to. In the city I'm a councillor for, there is not a single woman street cleaner or rubbish person. NOT ONE!!!! Nearly 70% of the council employees are women, but they are all in the soft cushy jobs.
UK women fought, and initially won, to prevent equalizing the retirement age. The last I heard, they still get to retire 3 years before men, when I hit retirement as in 20'ish years. They also fought to prevent equalizing the amount of pension credits to get a state pension. They DID NOT fight for men to get pension credits for being stay at home dads, like women have gotten since the current tax system started over 100 years ago.
I've been debating feminists for 30 years and they can never show a single issue that directly benefited men, while having no benefit or that harmed women's privilege. The closest they can get is RAPE IS RAPE, but that totally fails because they said that men can only be raped and sexually assaulted by other men, while women can be done by anyone. So while it seems good on it's face, it's a direct protection of women who rape and/or sexually assault men.
There's a lawsuit by a non-feminist over women being part of any future draft. NOW has filed a "friend of the court" brief opposing women being treated equally in the draft.
NOW openly opposes "equal parenting" because it harms the woman's ability to live well. There's a TED or TEDx, not sure which, of a bitch from NOW saying that women should ALWAYS get custody of the kids. She said in politer terms, that a crack whore hooker mom is always better than a dad.
Feminists HATE anyone who supports men's rights. This also shows that they have no interest in gender equality.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
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LOL. Men should cuck for women, but we can't have our own movement for equality or we are women haters. Feminists claim that by fixing everything wrong in women's lives, everything in men's lives will automatically be fixed as a consequence.
What female issues in the west are there? NONE, except the made up shit by feminists.
You are ignoring the reality of it. With all the laws in the west about equal pay for equal work, there would be, if you listen to feminists and liar/cuck politicians, millions of lawsuits and prosecutions every day for violating the law. It seems like you only know what is taught in gender studies, by a feminist extremist.
I'm not ignoring the problem. Like I said before, there are tons of problems going on in the world all at the same time, and it's kind of impossible to tackle them all. Clearly, you're incredibly passionate about men's issues which is fine. As a male, I'm glad. I see you as completely complacent, indifferent, and hostile towards female issues on the other hand. You keep dismissing female problems, so if anybody is doing the "ignoring" it's you.
For me, I'm not trying to ignore or minimize male problems. But as a male, I personally have not experienced any significant problems due to my gender. Female problems seem comparatively worse, and thus in the hierarchy of injustices, I'm giving more attention to feminist issues. That's just me. I'm not saying you can't be more pro-male issues than pro-female issues. I just don't like that you feel you must COMPLETELY DISREGARD female issues. It's so one-or-the-other with you. You've got way more of a scarcity mindset than I do, but it seems you're going to stay extreme on this issue, so it is what it is. Maybe things are that much worse in Europe than in the US when it comes to men's issues.
Men earn more because of their career and education choices. If a woman is sitting on her ass at the reception desk at the local council office complaining about men earning more, she could always apply to become a street cleaner or garbage person who make more. Men in full time jobs work more hours than women in full time jobs.
This isn't true a lot of the time, so this is a blindspot for you. There's plenty of examples where females earn a lot less for the same position and arguably offer more value. You can watch any reality show based on political dynamics and you can see how various social groups (including gender) clique up and make decisions based on demographic differences rather than merit. If you don't think that happens in the real world, you're naive and delusional sorry
Also, a big reason why females don't pursue higher career and education choices is due to patriarchy once again, so you again supported my earlier point. Historical gender roles continue to exert social pressure (which can also take the form of political, economic, militaristic, etc. pressure) on people based on their gender. One just needs to look at the transgender bathroom issues to see just how much society policies people based on gender identity.
So again, the historical structures and institutions that were created long ago continue to exert significant affect over people today regardless of merit, desire, etc. and that limits people's opportunities, choices, empowerment, etc. I think you don't understand that concept. If you dismiss it without trying to understand this perspective, I can already tell you that we're just going to have to agree to disagree, and hopefully one day, you'll "get" it
No matter how you work it, except in HR, you won't get a good job with a gender studies degree.
It's embarrassing that you're trying to argue sexism against females doesn't exist based purely on gender, when you're already arguing that sexism against males exists based on gender. If it happens 1 way, obviously, it's going to happen the other way too.
http://time.com/4398888/doctors-gender-wage-gap/
In medicine, women choose the softer jobs, like techs and nursing. These are the lowest paying jobs in medicine. While brain and heart surgeons make the most and these 2 fields are almost completely men.
As the article above explains, there's more at play than those factors.
Feminism has nothing to do with equality, since they always fight against equality. Despite what Chanty Binx said at that men's health lecture, she and her group fought to oppose equal parenting laws in their part of Canada.
AGAIN, you are cucking for feminism. Feminism does not care about gender equality unless it's something they deem good for women. They are butthurt about the so called glass ceiling, but ignore the glass bottom that men are under and they refuse to go down to.
I think you're misunderstanding what kind of equality academic feminism is fighting for. They're not fighting for net equality like communism. They're fighting for equality of opportunity, where merit can thrive and thus individual ability will thrive more, because people of whatever genders won't be kept down by prejudices/pressure against them due to their gender specifically. The original basis for feminism isn't to manufacture net equality which leads to other inequalities. It's more about fighting against discrimination based on gender rather than make sure males and females have equal stats all across the board. Of course, individuals on both sides misunderstand this and take things too far, but extremist fringes exist in all movements.
I've been debating feminists for 30 years and they can never show a single issue that directly benefited men, while having no benefit or that harmed women's privilege.
Since all mothers are women, then all males have benefited from women being more empowered. It's sad you're stuck in identity politics rather than seeing how we're all interconnected and in this together.
By the way, it's telling how you're supposedly so passionate about these male issues and all the crimes of liberals/feminists/etc. but you have yet to condemn Milo's pedophilia who you created a whole thread to defend. Ridiculously biased much? It doesn't seem you really care about injustices or morality at all, you've just brainwashed by far-right ideology like an embarrassing puppet, and you're not longer able to see things from any other perspective.
You can feel free to disagree with different viewpoints, but you should at least be able to understand it. All you've been doing is ramming your same talking points over and over and using different examples while glossing over the constructive criticisms being made.
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Other than man-spreading and the like, what problems do women in the west face that are gender specific?
I'm sure it must be absolute fucking hellish for women to get the vast majority of tax money for their social and medical issues.
NOPE, the entire west sucks to be a man. Except in Sweden, women have AA which helps them get into college, even though they make up 60+% of college students. Not to mention that 40 years ago we feminized the education system to help women do better, despite knowing it would harm the education of boys.
Yeah, it was quite obvious on The Weakest Link. Women would oust the men regardless, while men ousted the ones that would help them more.
PATRIARCHY!!!!!!!!! Blame everything on penis. Men do bad things it's because they are men. Women do bad things it's because men exist. Yea, yeah. I've heard all this bullshit before.
Really? Using an article from Time that uses another article from Time as a source?
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Women can have sex with boys, then force the boy to pay child support.
Mary K Latourneau fucked a 12yo and only spent 3 months in prison the 1st time. PUSSY PASS!!!!!
She gets out of jail and fucks him some more and only get's the suspended 6 years from her first conviction. PUSSY PASS!!!!!!
Jackie of UVA fame didn't get prosecuted. PUSSY PASS!!!!!
Crystal from DUKE LaCrosse didn't get prosecuted. Pussy Pass!!!!
Crystal only went to prison for the murder of her boyfriend. Despite the evidence, she got pussy passed with 2nd degree murder.
The PUSSY PASS is real and it's an official part of the UK judges' rule book, despite all the laws about gender equality.
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I'm sure it must be absolute fucking hellish for women to get the vast majority of tax money for their social and medical issues.
Except they don't. At least in the US
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-tax-expenditure-budget
This is where it seems like you and other conservative extremists are living in a delusional bubble where you've heard and repeated the same talking points over and over that you haven't actually done basic research to see how finances are being allocated. Fractions of the federal budget and tax money is being spent on social issues in general let alone specifically to women. For you to claim that women are getting "the vast majority of tax money" is just completely wrong and embarrassing. There's a disconnect from your extreme perception and the reality of what is actually happening.
PATRIARCHY!!!!!!!!! Blame everything on penis.
Patriarchy doesn't blame everything on men at all. You just proved you don't even understand what it is you're bashing.
Men do bad things it's because they are men. Women do bad things it's because men exist. Yea, yeah. I've heard all this bullshit before.
This is why I said you have a chip on your shoulder. You're bringing in baggage from past conversations into the present one and instead of actively listening and understanding you're making assumptions, jumping to conclusions, and misunderstanding things all across the board.
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I didn't say that ALL tax money. I said of tax money that goes to social and medical issues. The majority of it goes to women. Men get treated like shit because women are oppressed. Look at the government spending on the big 3 cancers; lung, breast and prostate. By the numbers AFFECTED; 1. lung, 2. prostate and 3. breast. HOWEVER, government spending would suggest that breast cancer is by far the most important one and prostate cancer is the least important by a long ways. There is virtually no funding for men's social issues, but endless cash for women's social issues. The UK defunded ALL male charities starting the current tax year; 2016/17, but only gave women's charities a 5% cut.
You already admitted that feminists are selfish cunts who only care about themselves and don't give a damned about men. Yeah, I know, there's this mythical "academic feminism" that's supposedly perfection beyond any god. Feminists do nothing for men, but get extremely butt hurt when men try getting their own equality. Feminists pull fire alarms to prevent talks on male specific health issues. They nearly riot to prevent a male suicide lecture. Feminists invent "man-spreading", despite their own guilt on the topic, while women are stoned to death in the middle east.
BULLSHIT, "patriarchy" blames men and "bad" women. It's in the name. We also have "man-spreading", "man-splaining", "man-slamming" and others. Yeah, you're right. It's not about blaming men. Give me a break.
You really need to stop cucking for over privileged western women who need to make up oppression so they can claim to be persecuted by everything.
If I have a chip on my shoulder, then you have a severe case of self loathing.
HAH. You are just another feminist cuck trying desperately to convince me that western women are oppressed when they clearly aren't.
You remind me of that feminist cuck in Portland a short while back. His, female friend decided to hit a guy because he didn't respect their protest. He was trying to get to work, FFS. After being hit a few times, the guy hit her back. Suddenly gender equality went out the window and it was all about "you can't hit a women". I'm sorry, but I would have hit back after the 1st time she hit me.
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I can see from our conversation that we are not operating in the same reality. Our perceptions of reality are too different, and personally I think you're way too biased and programmed to get out of the self-reinforcing echo chamber you're now trapped in. It is what it is.
I guess the message that you're sending to everybody is that we should all take the lower road instead of the higher road since others are doing it and pursue are most selfish immediate short-term interests.
I'm just going to have to disagree with your values that hateful demagoguery should run wild, and we should be siding with the non-American foreigner who supports pedophilia instead of 1 of the highest rated educational institutions in the world who's already brought way more value to the world.
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