Having been a member for a few years now, and having had my fare share of hard drive crashes, losing my libraries, having to start over, rebuilding my seed points .... hell I can even remember when Administrator let me have some free credits when I pleaded for assistance ... and he helped me out.  And in turn, I have kept my promise back to him.  I love this site.  I enjoy the community.  I appreciate those who contribute to it, and I appreciate even more those who help facilitate and administer it.  Uwe, more than anyone, simply because I tried to help rebuild the system after the crash last year of the site.  The point is, this is a community, and it take members to help make it work.  And members have been given the opportunity to voice concerns, make suggestions, and interact with staff.  It's part of what makes this community great - and why I personally enjoy it, and I'm sure thousands of others do as well.

Debate can be good - it helps foster community - and it helps improve things that can be improved upon.  I certainly have full respect for everyone on staff involved in created, building, tweaking and supporting this site and system.  Truly, my hats off to all of you for what you have accomplished.  I know you have heard suggestions in the past, made adjustments, and the history of your actions and changes are lost if not recognized by many in the community - especially those who are new'ish to us.

I understand the issue of having only 1 seeder and downloading very slow.  I've experienced it also. But remember this is not the only website people may be dl/ul from.  We may have many torrents active from different websites. There is a button on the page to request reseed or more seeders.

I was about to suggest PMing the seeder and asking them to increase the speed but I think they changed the site and made all uploaders anonymous. That's too bad.  If you sent me a PM asking nicely to increase the speed I would have no problem doing it.

I've brought up this example two members in the context of the bonus system discussion. Of course I could PM them, but since my computer and µTorrent are running anyway daily, that isn't a major issue for me. I've sent as well a re-seed request, but no response (this to low ratio issues …). If they respond positively to a PM, it will just take away upload rate from the others. As said upon, currently I get my fair share. Anyway my personal download is not the point here.

There are two things making me tick a little:
If members are uploading / downloading on other places, that is the their problem to manage the share of bandwidth. In no way the GayTorrent.ru bonus system should compensate for members prefer to share elsewhere. That can't be the purpose of a bonus system.

The given examples IMHO just proof:
There must be a limit of number of torrents rewarded with Seed Bonus Points (if totally flat or a certain number, is another question) or it would spoil seeding. Just to make the calculation: our current system is worth 1.43 KBytes/s, times 100 of the examples makes up for 143 KBytes/s. That would mean more than the best ADSL2+ line can do ! My guess of usual reached real upload rates by most members are in the 20 to 80 KBytes/s rage.

To make it clear: The two members of my example are GOOD MEMBERS, they keep torrents alive and steady seed. For that they earn 5% to 7% extra to their upload by the current seed bonus system. Not that bad, isn't it?
What they could do better is the traffic management, by changed torrent client settings. That would be the top.

I was about to suggest PMing the seeder and asking them to increase the speed but I think they changed the site and made all uploaders anonymous. That's too bad.  If you sent me a PM asking nicely to increase the speed I would have no problem doing it.

We changed it because people were wrongly accusing us of giving the info to the studios/anti piracy groups.  We're stuck in a perpetual catch 22.  Damned if we do, damned if we don't.  Can't win for losing.

Also, most times, people don't keep their upload after a certain amount of time.  I no longer have any of the stuff I uploaded here prior to Jan 2011.  This was either due to hdd crashes or making space for new stuff.

I was about to suggest PMing the seeder and asking them to increase the speed but I think they changed the site and made all uploaders anonymous. That's too bad.  If you sent me a PM asking nicely to increase the speed I would have no problem doing it.

As anecdote, fitting well into what raphjd indicated: I am currently trying to download two old torrent, each of them got 1 seed left only (different). Both are dropping in steady at 1 KByte/s and know after 2 weeks (the computer being 100 hours online a week) the download. is about 60% complete of both, total file size of each is below 1 GByte.

Of course the uploader merit a thank you for keeping them alive and seeding them in the first place !

However they manage their bandwidth not in the best way, at least it seem so. Both are seeding around 100 torrents out of which about 20, respectively 30 got leecher. The upload rates of these users are around 20 and 35 KBytes/s. So I get my fair share.

Now just try to thing about the seed bonus rewarding and how such seeding should be rewarded …

Personally that example brings me to some ideas, but certainly complex to implement and I fear we would need a more powerful server to calculate the attribution:

• Give 0.5 Seed Bonus Points per hour only for 1 torrent without any condition
• Give 0.05 Seed Bonus Points per hour up to additional 10 torrents which are only seed by that 1 seeder and have currently no leecher (kept alive)

This potentially doubles the Seed Bonus Points and my experience tells me it will almost double it (~99%)

@ thedude99

First off, "seem to be implying most" is not saying saying everyone, not is it actually saying "most".

You said, "As it is now, people leave 1 torrent "seeding" but turn down the speed so low that it won't ever seed properly.  All so they can get the SB for free. "

If you weren't implying that most people are doing that then why was that comment relevant? Why are you using that as an excuse to not change anything? If it's only a few people abusing it why punish everyone else?

I also question why you are only now posting about this, since you have been here for nearly 4 years.   Surely our system was crap in your eyes before the other 188 weeks you've been a member.

I've always noticed it but tried to ignore it. Now I felt like commenting on it.  I hope that's ok and it's not past the statute of limitations.

Look I can see we're not going to agree on this so let's drop it.  You don't think it should be changed and that's fine, I can respect that.

I have searched everywhere but can't see the answer. Will someone please tell me what this "invite" is  we exchange for 250 seed bonus? Invitation to what? Who invites me to where? What's it?

Power Users can invite friends to join the tracker. Here's several threads discussing this same topic:

http://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=4436.0
http://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=12806.0
http://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=14676.0
http://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=4911.0
http://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=7198.0
http://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=9272.0
http://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=15328.0
http://community.gaytor.rent/index.php?topic=9009.0

First off, "seem to be implying most" is not saying saying everyone, not is it actually saying "most".

Let me get this right.

Just because some members abuse the SB system, doesn't mean it I'm right.

Just because you (and most everyone else) go completely against your own point, doesn't mean you are wrong.

In other words, "heads you win, tails I lose".

Nice logic.

I also question why you are only now posting about this, since you have been here for nearly 4 years.  Surely our system was crap in your eyes before the other 188 weeks you've been a member.

NOTE:  I would say that a lot (not a few, as Uwe said) of people cheat at SB, just like we saw with picture uploading and every other benefit we gave.  We had to cut back on the reward for uploading pictures to torrent pages because it was massively abused.

I think here especially to members having an internet access with a data volume limit and high expenses if it is exceeded.  I read that such schemes are quite usual in Canada or were in Belgium for example. (Note: I am not at all saying all Canadians or Belgians do anything bad). These members may try to optimise their volume quota by using it as much as possible for downloading and get upload through bonus points only, without really seeding sensible data volumes. These will seed more than the one needed to collect the multiple points (if installed such way), but the torrents they keep alive may become real "zombies", if such a seed is the last and only seed.

Members with flat rate have nearly no reason to limit their upload rate of course, except they need it for other share ratio controlled trackers 

Show me the exact point where I said everyone with 1 torrent seeding does it.

I'll wait.

I also note that you claim to be doing something that you say isn't worth your time because you aren't getting enough SB reward for it (seeding 2 torrents at a time), so you are proof that our current system works, because you are seeding more than 1 torrent.

You seemed to be implying that was what most people were generally doing, setting 1 torrent on low speed just to get the SB points. I don't know how you know this but if that's what you are saying then isn't that proof that the current SB system DOESN'T work? If the purpose of the SB system is to rewards seeders for continually seeding but you only reward them for one torrent would you be surprised if most people only leave 1 torrent open? You don't want to change the system because you think too many people would just turn all torrents to low speed? How do you know this?

Just because I'm personally seeding more than one torrent doesn't prove the system works. It just proves there are some people who don't seed only for the SB or even for ratio. One of my torrents has me as the only seeder. I could stop seeding and let it die but I don't want to because I know some people will still want it. I have a positive ratio so I don't NEED to seed but I choose to. That doesn't mean I think the current SB system is effective or that I don't want any SB.

I'm currently seeding 10 torrents that don't see a whole lot of downloading activity so it'd be nice to get something else for the effort. Maybe if we got points for each torrent I'd seed even more torrents or leave them open longer.

@raphjd:

As it is now, people leave 1 torrent "seeding" but turn down the speed so low that it won't ever seed properly.  All so they can get the SB for free.

How do you know that every person that leaves 1 torrent open has turned the speed to low? I have 2 torrents that I've been seeding since 2009 and I have not changed the speed at all.

Show me the exact point where I said everyone with 1 torrent seeding does it.

I'll wait.

I also note that you claim to be doing something that you say isn't worth your time because you aren't getting enough SB reward for it (seeding 2 torrents at a time), so you are proof that our current system works, because you are seeding more than 1 torrent.

As it is now, people leave 1 torrent "seeding" but turn down the speed so low that it won't ever seed properly.  All so they can get the SB for free.

How do you know that every person that leaves 1 torrent open has turned the speed to low? I have 2 torrents that I've been seeding since 2009 and I have not changed the speed at all.

• Nothing is fixed into granite, IMHO the system needs to surveyed and adapted if necessary. You can be sure the staff reads the different suggestions and keeps them in mind. (Off course that doesn't mean the system will be changed as per every requester's demand. Changes to the system are rare and take time …)

• The points in the first list are the advantages of the current system

• No conclusion was made by me on purpose, to keep this open. Anyway, I can't speak here for all staff but gave rather my personal points of view

I agree that the requester does not need SBP for himself, his statistics show it clearly.

A bonus system can not replace the need of real upload. Only real upload can be downloaded. If the bonus is too generous, it will be possible to keep the individual share ratios high, without need to upload real data. Then what will happen is, that downloads will slow down, because of missing uploads.

My experience on a friendly competition gay torrent site, having every torrent being freeleech after 3 months and no minimum ratio requirement is, that when I tried to download those to complete my collections, they where not seed (many even not after having sent re-seed requests) or slowly. That doesn't mean I've got nothing and on some the original uploader did re-seed only for me (a big thank you to them), but it was overall quite frustrating and I gave up on most after some months. Here it is just the opposite: members are "forced" to seed and keep ratio. ... perhaps a little too much ... possible.

It is right that it won't be unfair to give for each torrent seed even without upload, SBP. True. But is that the purpose of the SBP system? Not sure. We would have to reduce the SBP per torrent drastically, in view of members seeding 50, 100, 1000 torrents (yes, there are many like that) and that will hurt starters with few more than a flat credit of SBP.

Then, the more not currently downloaded torrents a member seeds in "standby", the higher the chance one of them is picked by a member to download and "bingo": real data upload improves the share ratio. In the abyss of this forum, you find indications that I had been possible to reach seeding only torrents of over 3 months age an average above 100KBytes/s. That is more than most members internet access physically allows.

There will be adaptations to the seed bonus system, but a massive inflation of them, certainly not.

On the topic of "you suck because other sites do free leech and all you give us is some shitty, we hate you, die mother fucker die!!!, seed bonus", well I'm still sitting here downloading a free leech torrent from another site and it hasn't moved for 2 days now and it's taken 3 weeks to get to 11.8%.

I don't see how that would make it unfair or cheat the system

As it is now, people leave 1 torrent "seeding" but turn down the speed so low that it won't ever seed properly.  All so they can get the SB for free.

The purpose of the seed bonus is to help people, not to make it so they never have to see ever again by giving them 10 billion GB worth of SB points a day.

This idea is as bad as the "no ratio limits" and "pay us cash for uploading and seeding" camps.  Effectively, all 3 concepts will destroy the community because no one will be seeding anything.

NOTE:  YES, there some people here who believe they should be paid cash for seeding back things they downloaded of free from here, as well as uploading things they got free from other sites.

"Otherwise what is the incentive for seeding more torrents"
&
"It will also be a kind of incentive to encourage people to seed."

Am I missing something here…. the incentive to seed and to seed multiple torrents is your Ratio... Seed 1 torrent and yes you get 12 sb per day, but dont forget seed multiple torrents and theres more chance someone will download them...

It's not just about ratio, it's also about keeping the torrent alive. If I'm seeding an old or unpopular torrent where there's only a single or few seeders and people aren't downloading it every day, then there's little reason in continuing to seed it and I might just stop it and let the torrent die. But if I were getting points for seeding each torrent then that would make me continue to seed it. It just seems logical to give an incentive to do that.  Isn't that the whole reason for the bonus points system? This would just be applying it to every torrent. I don't see how that would make it unfair or cheat the system.  People would leave more torrents open longer and there would be more seeds, especially for older files.

The problem is, like with the picture uploading for torrents, people will cheat by either spamming the forums with junk for points or uploading duplicate torrents for points.

Once we (when I say "we" I mean Mgr for coding stuff like this) get past the coding issue so when stuff is rejected/removed it also takes away their SB points, then it will probably go on-line.

Give SB for every valid torrent file uploaded - for example 5 SBP for each normal movie uploaded and 10 SBP for a DVD-R Uploaded - this would help encourage more new torrents to be uploaded.

Give SBP for activity on the forum etc - something like 1 SBP for replying to a post - and 5 SBP for Starting a new post (Valid posts and just just any old crap to get points)....

Just a couple of suggestions, but they get people participating more to earn points....

I don't believe that people will wait for a torrent for several months.  They will delete it from their client and move on.

I also don't believe that people only upload for SB points and if anyone does that, then they are silly beyond words.

Am I missing something here…. the incentive to seed and to seed multiple torrents is your Ratio... Seed 1 torrent and yes you get 12 sb per day, but dont forget seed multiple torrents and theres more chance someone will download them...