UC Berkeley at it again
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I can see from our conversation that we are not operating in the same reality. Our perceptions of reality are too different, and personally I think you're way too biased and programmed to get out of the self-reinforcing echo chamber you're now trapped in. It is what it is.
I guess the message that you're sending to everybody is that we should all take the lower road instead of the higher road since others are doing it and pursue are most selfish immediate short-term interests.
I'm just going to have to disagree with your values that hateful demagoguery should run wild, and we should be siding with the non-American foreigner who supports pedophilia instead of 1 of the highest rated educational institutions in the world who's already brought way more value to the world.
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The problem is, the left refuse to do anything other than get violent. They don't want a dialogue. They only want to silence those who disagree with them.
Besides, where were the "alt-right" people at the women's march? Kinda hypocritical to say that one side should do something, when the other side won't.
I also notice that I always get a thumbs down when I point out the extreme hypocrisy of the left.
you troll the crap out of people on a gay torrent site then want hugs?
you reap what you sow..
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Your "reality" is clearly in a feminist mindset.
You ignore everything I have pointed out that shows female privilege, while not giving me anything showing that women are oppressed in the west. By "oppressed" I mean something real, not crap like "birth rape" and "man-splaining".
The Chair of the council I'm on is a woman. Oh NO, she's oppressed by the glass ceiling. :crazy2: In fact, of the 5 council officers, only the Secretary is male. The other 4 are women. Damned, you are right, women are oppressed. :blind:
I have pointed out actual things that show female privilege and all you have is crap like "stare rape".
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The problem is, the left refuse to do anything other than get violent. They don't want a dialogue. They only want to silence those who disagree with them.
Besides, where were the "alt-right" people at the women's march? Kinda hypocritical to say that one side should do something, when the other side won't.
I also notice that I always get a thumbs down when I point out the extreme hypocrisy of the left.
you troll the crap out of people on a gay torrent site then want hugs?
you reap what you sow..
Wait, what exactly did I say wrong in any of that?
The left hates dialogue and debate. Instead they would rather pull fire alarms to prevent a lecture on men's health, riot to prevent a lecture on male suicide, and riot and set fire to a building that people are in to prevent speech they don't like. The left beats up people they ASSUME disagree with the left's narrative. No proof needed, you are guilty of wrong think if the left thinks you're guilty. If you are deemed guilty, it's ok to enact physical violence on you, even after you are laying unconscious and bloody on the road. The left thinks it's acceptable to pour a bottle of piss on someone, just because they don't agree with "unlimited genders". Feminist cucks don't mind punching women, if they ask the wrong questions. The left doesn't mind physically attacking a retired couple out walking their dog because they look like they support free speech.
Like so many words, the left has made "trolling" lose all of it's meaning. Any disagreeing with the left's narrative is classed as "trolling" by the left.
Instead of crying "he's trolling", try debating the issue. Instead of being a total coward, defend your position.
And you proved one of my points; the gay hive mind.
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Your "reality" is clearly in a feminist mindset.
You ignore everything I have pointed out that shows female privilege, while not giving me anything showing that women are oppressed in the west. By "oppressed" I mean something real, not crap like "birth rape" and "man-splaining".
The Chair of the council I'm on is a woman. Oh NO, she's oppressed by the glass ceiling. :crazy2: In fact, of the 5 council officers, only the Secretary is male. The other 4 are women. Damned, you are right, women are oppressed. :blind:
I have pointed out actual things that show female privilege and all you have is crap like "stare rape".
Our reality differs not just in politics but in how you literally can't even "see" certain things. Your mind is literally ignoring things I've said entirely, interpreting things completely differently from how I mean them, etc.
I didn't ignore female privilege. My position is just that male privilege is greater than female privilege at this point.
You ask me about how women are oppressed, but you have yet to answer how it's not sexist that we've yet to have a female President when half the population is female. So the person doing the "ignoring" is you. You're selectively focusing on certain facts and not others. We all do it, but be self-aware of it and less hypocritical about it please. The things you accuse others of and hate liberals for are the same thing that you yourself is doing! I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not deliberately trying to be a selfish hypocritical douchebag and that you're a delusional person who lacks self-awareness and logical consistency instead lol.
I never brought up birth rape, man-splaining, OR stare-rape. That was stuff YOU brought up in order to de-legitimize the actual real sexist issues. This is why I say we don't live in the same reality, and why I think you're delusional. If I ignored some of the things you said, it's because you were basically just talking to yourself and bring up tangential points that weren't particularly relevant to the conversation that we were originally having.
Somebody mentioned that you were trolling, and now maybe I'm starting to come around to the fact that maybe you're purposely being as delusional and contrarian as possible for shits and giggles. So yeah I'm pretty much done wasting both of our time. We're just not going to agree and that's okay. :cool2:
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Wait, we have to vote for a person just because they have a vagina, regardless how crap they are. If women wanted Hillary to be President, she would be President since women are the biggest voting block.
What's wrong? Don't you like using your movement against you? Feminists create bullshit "oppression" to stay valid, because they have no real issues to complain about.
I have pointed out actual female privilege and all you give is "but Hillary wasn't elected".
Yeah, "trolling" again. More pathetic left bullshit because they can't have a debate on issues.
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Wait, we have to vote for a person just because they have a vagina, regardless how crap they are. If women wanted Hillary to be President, she would be President since women are the biggest voting block.
What's wrong? Don't you like using your movement against you? Feminists create bullshit "oppression" to stay valid, because they have no real issues to complain about.
I'm not talking about Hillary. I'm talking about 45 Presidents and not one of them have been female. You have yet to explain why this happens. A statistic this ridiculous isn't just "luck" or "coincidence" at that point. If it's not patriarchy, then what? Give an alternative explanation at least.
Yeah, "trolling" again. More pathetic left bullshit because they can't have a debate on issues.
I'm leaning towards "trolling" because you literally spent the majority of your posts ranting about the same things without addressing the points made. You're not having a genuine discussion or trying to understand other viewpoints. It's not a true debate when you're basically ignoring the topic and complaining about something completely different.
Example (summarizing your arguments)
Me - Females suffer from inequality
You - No they don't! Males suffer from inequality. Liberals suck
Me - Males suffering from inequality doesn't mean that females somehow don't also
You - Males suffer from inequality. Liberals suck
You - Males suffer from inequality. Liberals suck
You - Males suffer from inequality. Liberals suck
You - Males suffer from inequality. Liberals suck
You - Males suffer from inequality. Liberals suckLike what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I can't have a debate with somebody who does not use sound logic.
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Women in the west are not oppressed. They are privileged. I have constantly shown female privilege and you ignore it so you can claim that women are oppressed without any giving any examples.
Women elsewhere are oppressed, but feminists care about them as much as they care about men.
Other western countries have had women leaders. So maybe no decent woman has run for US President. We already talked about the video of Justin Trudeau talking about how hard it is to get women to run for politics.
Are you saying we need to do what Trudeau did and make 50% of the cabinet women regardless of experience and expertise?
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Women in the west are not oppressed. They are privileged. I have constantly shown female privilege and you ignore it so you can claim that women are oppressed without any giving any examples.
Women elsewhere are oppressed, but feminists care about them as much as they care about men.
Other western countries have had women leaders. So maybe no decent woman has run for US President. We already talked about the video of Justin Trudeau talking about how hard it is to get women to run for politics.
Are you saying we need to do what Trudeau did and make 50% of the cabinet women regardless of experience and expertise?
I already addressed all this. Go back and read what was said and actually try to understand a different viewpoint (that you are clearly unable to grasp) instead of mindlessly ramming down your own already refuted points over and over again.
At this point I have to assume you are either trolling or not smart enough to understand what is being said, and either way I'm not going to be wasting much more time on this. I think you're stuck in the victim-based perverted right mentality and you literally can't grasp any reality outside of that.
without any giving any examples.
Just gave the President example above so way to lie/be wrong once again.
We already talked about the video of Justin Trudeau talking about how hard it is to get women to run for politics.
And what was my answer to that? Were you paying attention? Did you grasp the concept? Patriarchy conditions females to not run for politics. Whether it's overt social pressure (like females actively getting discouraged from participating) or subtle (traditional feminine roles for example), that right there shows the existence of environmental influences. Because unless you believe there is a biological basis for the Presidential inequality, that means it's SOCIAL.
Cause and effect.
So maybe no decent woman has run for US President.
Thank you for helping to prove patriarchy exists. That's the feminist point
Are you saying we need to do what Trudeau did and make 50% of the cabinet women regardless of experience and expertise?
Not at all.
What feminists are asking is that why in a world where females make up a slim majority, and where females and males enter this world with relative equal capabilities, that you get widely different results in politics as well as economic, social, etc. spheres (patriarchy)? If it's not biological, that means it's social. That means it's learned, created, passed on, programmed, influenced, etc. That means individuals and societies collectively influence females to end up in a weaker position than males (if we're looking at overall stats; naturally different males and females perform better or worse based on individual ability and circumstance, but if we're summarizing entire social groups based on trends then that is a fair statement). Those individuals and societies are composed of both males and females, so again feminists aren't blaming men for females problems. They're blaming all of society for that (which of course includes women)
Something prevents females from wanting to go into politics
Something prevents females from gaining "experience" (you also reveal your hypocrisy with that statement, since Hillary had far more experience than Trump, so you clearly don't value that when it comes to political merit)
Something prevents females from gaining "expertise"
If it's not patriarchy then what is it? Give an explanation. Even if we go with your assumption that nobody is oppressing females (which means they are oppressing themselves which again proves patriarchy exists) and that they actually have some sort of magical privilege or advantage in life, then how do you explain 0 females Presidents with all their "privilege"? You're being completely illogical. Women are SO privileged that they've never held 1 of the most powerful political positions in the country and the world!!!11!!1!!1!
SO MUCH PRIVILEGE!
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Lol go look at Scandinavia, they already have done the raise people up without issues, support them, education, all that. Letting people just be themselves and follow whatever career path they want and guess what? Women and men even with all that are still choosing different fields, women out ranking men as nurses 20-1, while still more men end up in sciences, the same sort of numbers and things we see today. Nothing is stopping women but the biological factors which you choose to deny. Men and women are different. Your arguments are the same misinformed gender studies drivel always seen on tumblr.
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Feminists and their cucks only want gender equality in ways that suits women. They have no fucking interest in real gender equality.
Feminists want 50/50 in the boardroom, but don't fucking dare mention the Sanitation Dept not being 50/50.
Hillary is extremely horrible, especially her idiotic feminist comments. Blame penis all you want on her not getting elected, but it was all her and that crackhead liberal race baiting, identity politics and whatnot that turned so many people off.
The First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, is a feminist and for a decade she has done nothing to bring gender equality to Scotland. Sure, she's brought feminism and feminist laws, but she has refused to give Scotland gender equality. This has happened in other countries too.
Feminists created all kinds of lunatic bullshit like; stare-rape, talk-rape, birth-rape, lie-to-a-gold-digger-for-sex-rape, man-spreading, man-splaining and countless other things just to have something to bitch about and pretend to be victims.
Feminists pull fire alarms to prevent lectures on men's health issues. The riot to prevent a lecture on male suicide. They prevent men from having a safe space on campus.
Feminists hate MRAs, but constantly fight against gender equality and men's issues.
Even feminist cucks occasionally break ranks and admit that feminists/ism has no interest in men's issues. It's only about the vag.
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Feminists and their cucks only want gender equality in ways that suits women. They have no fucking interest in real gender equality.
Feminists want 50/50 in the boardroom, but don't fucking dare mention the Sanitation Dept not being 50/50.
Hillary is extremely horrible, especially her idiotic feminist comments. Blame penis all you want on her not getting elected, but it was all her and that crackhead liberal race baiting, identity politics and whatnot that turned so many people off.
The First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, is a feminist and for a decade she has done nothing to bring gender equality to Scotland. Sure, she's brought feminism and feminist laws, but she has refused to give Scotland gender equality. This has happened in other countries too.
Feminists created all kinds of lunatic bullshit like; stare-rape, talk-rape, birth-rape, lie-to-a-gold-digger-for-sex-rape, man-spreading, man-splaining and countless other things just to have something to bitch about and pretend to be victims.
Feminists pull fire alarms to prevent lectures on men's health issues. The riot to prevent a lecture on male suicide. They prevent men from having a safe space on campus.
Feminists hate MRAs, but constantly fight against gender equality and men's issues.
Even feminist cucks occasionally break ranks and admit that feminists/ism has no interest in men's issues. It's only about the vag.
The passion you have for this subject is very obvious… and i respect that but do you have to be so rude about it?
Also.. you use the word "cuck" a lot and just wanted to point out that the word's actual real meaning would actually surprise you on how derogatory it is.. but not to gay men or women - ironically
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Lol go look at Scandinavia, they already have done the raise people up without issues, support them, education, all that. Letting people just be themselves and follow whatever career path they want and guess what? Women and men even with all that are still choosing different fields, women out ranking men as nurses 20-1, while still more men end up in sciences, the same sort of numbers and things we see today. Nothing is stopping women but the biological factors which you choose to deny. Men and women are different. Your arguments are the same misinformed gender studies drivel always seen on tumblr.
I'll talk with you, since "raphjd" either lacks the intelligence to stay on topic (I could see going off on a tangent here and there as we all do that, but when it's pointed out to him and he is literally just repeating himself over and over again–then there's nowhere for us to go) or knows he can't counter logical arguments based on truth, so he's just relying on reciting the same talking points which have little to do with the points that I brought up.
So you believe gender inequalities occur due to natural biological differences correct? I would argue there's a lot more social and environmental influence overall and certainly much more than you probably realize.
First off, there's no denying that there are differences between males and females (as a whole). Gender studies don't even dispute that. So let's take that out of the equation.
We should both be able to agree that gender is shaped by BOTH biology and environment.
Biology determines an individual's sex (reproductive organs) and other biological factors like their hormones (which influence their personality, physiology, etc.).
However, environment shapes just about everything else (too):
Your values, beliefs, education, tastes, biases, family, experiences, opportunities, etc. All of that are factors no individual has direct control over. You don't choose who teaches you what when you're a baby. You don't choose the peers that you hang around and how they shape your conception of self, health habits, personal psychology, etc.
If males and females were raised in a vacuum where everything was all conditions were 100% the same (a true level playing field), that would be thing. They don't though. Different people have different opportunities in life. We're all shaped and impact by history, politics, economics, social systems, etc. All these non-biological factors influence who we think we are, what we think we're capable of, what opportunities are available to us, the people we meet, etc.
Feminists would argue that among these environmental factors is patriarchy. This really can't be denied by having 0 female Presidents and females getting the ability to vote WAY later than men (among many other metrics). Even later than African-American males whose ancestors came from slavery! History has not treated the genders equally, and that has an impact on the present which is independent of biological factors.
You brought up Scandinavia. But do you not think males/females are not brought up with a specific cultural with their own gender roles, identities, traditions, etc? Scandinavia may be 1 of the most liberal and progressive areas of the world compared to most other countries, but that doesn't mean it has achieved true equality or is free from the influence of patriarchy.
Nothing is stopping women but the biological factors which you choose to deny.
I won't deny that biological factors MAY play a role, but there's no doubt that the environment plays a role as well and probably the bigger one.
The reason why I don't think the argument that biological factors ALONE prevent women from wanting to go into politics, certain occupations, etc. is because they obviously don't. Hillary has run for President. She didn't stop herself. People/voters (the environment/social factors) stopped her–not her biology. There was nothing "natural" about that. We know plenty of women who are very capable in politics, economics, etc. So clearly even if one argues that females in general are biologically less inclined to enter these arenas as a whole (which is an argument I might be able to accept), you can't say that it is THE SINGULAR FACTOR influencing their decision-making.
Also, anthropologists and historians have already found societies in other cultures or in the past where women ARE political leaders or that tribal societies had achieved much more egalitarian social systems. It wasn't until the more militaristic patriarchal tribes started taking over that the dominant social systems of today were established. These are environmental and social systems--not biological.
We all know social influence exists. Anybody who has ever been influenced by a salesperson or great speaker, who has done something that they didn't necessarily want to do themselves but because somebody else influenced them to do it, etc. knows this. The very language we speak and the concepts that we understand (even "objective" subjects like math) were taught to us by people. Not by biology. Somebody had to teach us. And so you're kidding yourself if you think all the people in the world are the way they are due to biology alone. All of us have been shaped by our environments and by people. You can't be human without being a product of our an interdependent society. Only feral humans living in the wild because they were abandoned as babies or something can claim they are mostly the product of pure biology versus social influence.
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I'll talk with you, since "raphjd" either lacks the intelligence to stay on topic (I could see going off on a tangent here and there as we all do that, but when it's pointed out to him and he is literally just repeating himself over and over again–then there's nowhere for us to go) or knows he can't counter logical arguments based on truth, so he's just relying on reciting the same talking points which have little to do with the points that I brought up.
I'll ignore the personal attack.
You have no points that are worthwhile and you have no answer for the things I have talked about except "the patriarchy". "The Patriarchy" is you answer for everything.
Why did feminists fight against gender neutral sex crime laws in the UK? THE PATRIARCHY
Why did feminists fight against a gender neutral retirement age? THE PATRIARCHY
You excuse away everything feminists do to prevent true gender equality. You ignore all examples of female privilege, while screaming that everything oppresses women.
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I'll talk with you, since "raphjd" either lacks the intelligence to stay on topic (I could see going off on a tangent here and there as we all do that, but when it's pointed out to him and he is literally just repeating himself over and over again–then there's nowhere for us to go) or knows he can't counter logical arguments based on truth, so he's just relying on reciting the same talking points which have little to do with the points that I brought up.
I'll ignore the personal attack.
You have no points that are worthwhile and you have no answer for the things I have talked about except "the patriarchy". "The Patriarchy" is you answer for everything.
Why did feminists fight against gender neutral sex crime laws in the UK? THE PATRIARCHY
Why did feminists fight against a gender neutral retirement age? THE PATRIARCHY
You excuse away everything feminists do to prevent true gender equality. You ignore all examples of female privilege, while screaming that everything oppresses women.
Not all criticism is a "personal attack". Sometimes it's constructive criticism or entirely on point observation. But apparently your strategy for dealing with anything you don't like is to "ignore" it. You admitted it. So of course this is not a discussion or even a debate. You want to talk about certain things and ignore the points I brought up. And now I'm doing the same to you.
My whole point was that this whole topic got started because you claimed feminists don't suffer from genuine inequality. When I countered with evidence, instead of addressing that (because you couldn't), you ignored it (your go to strategy with dealing with inconvenient facts), and then created entirely new conversations which never addressed the original tangent topic that YOU started. The original topic of this thread had nothing to do with any of this.
So clearly, you're bringing a whole bunch of new topics into this thread which is okay, but it's probably better in terms of organization to finish the original debates first before opening entirely new massive topics up and creating chaos and confusion. But I suspect that's your life strategy when debating with things you're wrong about and/or you're confused about things yourself so your thoughts literally jump illogically from topic to topic without you actually thinking through the ramifications of your ideas and conclusions. It is what it is.
Learn something from this or don't and continue thinking you're right about everything in life. But we've gone as far as we can go, and you've clearly made up your mind that you're way of thinking is the only valid way of thinking and that anything else should either be ignored, dismissed, etc. You have no room for personal growth with that kind of close-mindedness, arrogance, and delusion.
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Your only point is no female US President. The rest of it is a bunch of crap.
You have no rebuttal to my points so you claim that I'm confused. Typical SJW bullshit.
You demand that we ignore the lunatic fringe, but fighting against gender equality is mainstream feminism.
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If it's not patriarchy, then what? Give an alternative explanation at least.
Here are several points to consider:
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I think we can all agree that women, in the past, were very much oppressed. Certainly at least up until the women's suffrage movement, at least.
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Since that point, there have only been 16 presidents, not 45. If you want to say that 0 in 45 isn't just bad luck, nobody would disagree with that point, technically, because of point 1. However not having one female president in 16 clearly isn't as meaningful.
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You seem genuinely interested in gaining the opposite perspective, but the alternative explanation is actually kind of obvious. Don't you think it's strange that you seemed as if you weren't able to even mentally consider it?
There are more men on both extremes, dumber and smarter, of the normal distribution. It directly follows that there are proportionately more highly qualified men than women in certain tasks and abilities.
Women and men have different pre-dispositions for different majors, and thus different careers and jobs.
**Unequal outcome does not logically follow from unequal opportunity, and NEVER has. **
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Your only point is no female US President. The rest of it is a bunch of crap.
You have no rebuttal to my points so you claim that I'm confused. Typical SJW bullshit.
You demand that we ignore the lunatic fringe, but fighting against gender equality is mainstream feminism.
There are actually more points, but the President point alone invalidates your whole argument so you definitely need to defend that if nothing else. So far you have not, which means you've formed opinions based on a truth you clearly can't even justify. That betrays a lack of objectivity and a trend towards bias and emotional decision-making. AKA that's why I claimed you've been programmed by the right. You should have thought through all the arguments on all sides, and if you haven't, then at least admit when you haven't and be willing to admit when you're wrong/uninformed/etc. Instead you want to play games and try changing topics when you can't defend points. It's a credibility-destroying tactic and shows you're arguing out of ego or agenda instead of truth-seeking or higher values.
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- Since that point, there have only been 16 presidents, not 45. If you want to say that 0 in 45 isn't just bad luck, nobody would disagree with that point, technically, because of point 1. However not having one female president in 16 clearly isn't as meaningful.
Even if somehow I think patriarchy would be erased simply because females got the legal right to vote (a claim that is so obviously flawed to me, because that's like arguing gays don't get discriminated against just because we can legally vote), 0/16 is still a ridiculous significant statistic. It's not as big as 45, but it's still a terribly meaningful stat when females aren't even minorities! If you look at it as a simple statistics problem (which is more objective than people voting since it's based on random chance), the chance of 0/16 "heads" or "tails" with a fair coin is:
0.0000152588
http://calculator.tutorvista.com/coin-toss-probability-calculator.html
In other words, the odds of having 0 female Presidents in a fair environment is close to 0% and at best rounded up big time is 1%. In other words, something is augmenting pure luck. One can argue females are innately biologically inferior when it comes to politics and/or patriarchy exists (an environment that gives males advantages in the political arena).
- You seem genuinely interested in gaining the opposite perspective, but the alternative explanation is actually kind of obvious. Don't you think it's strange that you seemed as if you weren't able to even mentally consider it?
There are more men on both extremes, dumber and smarter, of the normal distribution. It directly follows that there are proportionately more highly qualified men than women in certain tasks and abilities.
Women and men have different pre-dispositions for different majors, and thus different careers and jobs.
I did consider the point, and I follow your logic. However, the difference between us is this:
A possible explanation you have given for Presidential results is that the "best" males of our population (in terms of being able to win in politics) are more competitive than all the females in our population. That is possible. But then I must ask…why? What causes those pre-dispositions for both males and females? To me the answer is: biology and environment. For those who are religious, they may feel there's spiritual or God-given programming too. But pre-disposition comes from somewhere right?
And in the case of politics, which is a non-nature-based talent/skill and is completely social (people voting for people, people influencing people, etc.), that's why much of the "merit" or "qualification" involved in that must necessarily be environmental and not biological. That means the inequality is at least partly and largely coming from society itself. Which means patriarchy exists.
**Unequal outcome does not logically follow from unequal opportunity, and NEVER has. **
I agree with you on that. But at the same time, where there's smoke there's often fire.
Given both the historical context, the incredibly extreme nature of the statistically unequal and highly improbably outcomes, and obvious facts that all societies (even the more egalitarian ones) contain people with different statuses, powers, and privileges–it requires a ridiculous amount of naivety and benefit of the doubt to assume that we have somehow achieved complete equality among the 2 genders.
If indeed the unequal outcomes is the product of PURE LUCK, then one needs to come up with amazing explanations for all the clear indicators of inequality and have them make sense. When you can do that, then I could get more on board with the argument of ridiculously improbable luck.
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Your only point is no female US President. The rest of it is a bunch of crap.
You have no rebuttal to my points so you claim that I'm confused. Typical SJW bullshit.
You demand that we ignore the lunatic fringe, but fighting against gender equality is mainstream feminism.
There are actually more points, but the President point alone invalidates your whole argument so you definitely need to defend that if nothing else. So far you have not, which means you've formed opinions based on a truth you clearly can't even justify. That betrays a lack of objectivity and a trend towards bias and emotional decision-making. AKA that's why I claimed you've been programmed by the right. You should have thought through all the arguments on all sides, and if you haven't, then at least admit when you haven't and be willing to admit when you're wrong/uninformed/etc. Instead you want to play games and try changing topics when you can't defend points. It's a credibility-destroying tactic and shows you're arguing out of ego or agenda instead of truth-seeking or higher values.
As Trudeau said, it's extremely difficult to get women to run for office.
If women wanted a woman President, it would happen. There would be nothing men could do to stop it.
This is where you blame "patriarchy".
Now refute my points.
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