It sounds to me that you are the one doing the double speak, not the lawyers.  How exactly is this a "chaotic system" as you say.  Maybe your point would be clearer if you didn't try to sound so erudite.

I can't help you understand basic concepts.

Since you have chosen to repeatedly insult me, I am done attempting to communicate with you.

"Analogic "syllogism": Reasoning that if A is similar to B, and B is similar to C, therefore A is similar to C. Of course, the relation of "similar" is not transitive, but if the target can be induced to presume it is, this ruse may succeed in persuading. This is a favorite method in the "informal reasoning" used by lawyers."

This fallacy also seems very relevant.

"Complex cause: The cause identified is only a part of the entire cause of the effect."

As well as:

"Treating chaotic system as mechanical: Attributing the effect to causes as though it is predictable, when in fact the system, while parts may exhibit seemingly predictable patterns, cannot be generally predicted in principle from initial conditions. "

@nordicblue:

Alright, then explain why you think this is a false cause fallacy.  GABA doesn't need to make you stupid.  It decreases brain function is the areas affected, mainly executive functioning in the frontal lobe and allow the limbic system to go unchecked.  Teenagers make more rash decisions than adults due to their underdeveloped frontal lobe, which does not keep their amygdala in check.  :crazy2:

In regards to the false cause in the study : it's a transitional logic flaw. If A->B=true and B->C=true, that doesn't mean A->C=true.

That is absolutely what is means.  It is called the transitive property.  Any valid argument with true premises, will also have a true conclusion.

Alright, then explain why you think this is a false cause fallacy.  GABA doesn't need to make you stupid.  It decreases brain function is the areas affected, mainly executive functioning in the frontal lobe and allow the limbic system to go unchecked.  Teenagers make more rash decisions than adults due to their underdeveloped frontal lobe, which does not keep their amygdala in check.  :crazy2:

In regards to the false cause in the study : it's a transitional logic flaw. If A->B=true and B->C=true, that doesn't mean A->C=true. The media presented C->A and the uncredited study did not suggest that was true. (There is likely a very good reason why the paper was not directly cited. It's clear from the abstract that the conclusion drawn from it was very reaching.)

Note: Timothy Verstynen, Ph.D. is a psychologist.

The paper in which the media publication is loosely based on is here -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22879428

Note: The article also uses incorrect facts (Why am I not surprised?) The original article is here -> http://www.menshealth.com/weight-loss/being-fat-makes-you-stupid

The conclusion presented in the abstract is "Our results show that increased BMI is globally associated with a reduction in white matter integrity throughout the brain, elucidating a potential mechanism by which changes in physical health may influence cognitive health."

Notice it is suggesting "a potential mechanism" not stating "it is a fact that." The word "may" is also used.

The (A->B) (B->C) logic is not even consistent with the actual research that was done, (A MAY cause B) and (B MAY cause C), so therefore is it impossible to say (A CAUSES C). It's not even an established fact that A directly causes B or B directly causes C, there may be an observational correlation but it is not a guaranteed. Not to mention, there are many other causes for these conditions other then obesity.

The basics to logical fallacies are presented here for your reference. -> http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logical-fallacies

The media article is suggesting that "a reduction in white matter integrity" causes one to be stupid, this may be true, but it is certainly not the only cause of stupidity. More importantly the point of the study was not to evaluate white matter integrity and intelligence, nor are the instruments of measuring intelligence defined in the study.

As with many media opinions, actual facts that have been determined in respectable studies are directly cited, but are unrelated to the premise. As I said before, nobody is disputing that being "fat" is unhealthy and these are the only studies cited.

I also think you may have not noticed that this media article is an advertisement for a product called speed shred. I don't know about you, but I personally take what I read in advertisements with a grain of salt.

In regards to GABA, I'm not going to go into all the specifics, but it's a critical neurotransmitter that is required for normal brain function.

You can read about it here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Aminobutyric_acid

You can read about the myriad of conditions caused by low GABA here -> http://www.vitalityandwellness.com.au/low-gaba-levels

Considering the lengthy list of conditions caused by low GABA levels, I think it's safe to say that lower GABA levels are not associated with higher intelligence. Depression, excessive stress, and hypertension are known to occur though and are also caused by obesity, so your linkage is flawed (or at the very least incomplete/inadequate.)

Well if you think it is a junk study, then stay fat and see what happens.

Excuse me? That seems like a pretty ignorant response.

Your argument is besides the point.

No… That WAS the point. I'm sure it's a fact that being obese is unhealthy. Nobody is entertaining the idea that it isn't.

As you say, try reading more than "29 people who were having fMRIs and noticed a trend".  Excess adipose tissue increases the length of blood vessels, which increases stress.  Cortisol is releases in response to stress.  Cortisol increases GABA production, which induces neural inhibition, i.e., decreases brain activity.

GABA doesn't make you stupid, there you go again. Correlation does not indicate causation. You are falling into the trap the clever author of this article created, there is no factual evidence what so ever to support his claim, your mind is drawing the conclusion.

Researchers quizzed 29 people who were having fMRIs and noticed a trend

29 People? That's all? Notice the word "correlation" was not even used. This is a junk study and these researchers are intelligent enough to know this. This is an opinion, I'm not completely sure why some people got upset about it, but it might be because the title of this post is misleading. Also, it's even hinted in the direct quote to what the real cause of what this "lack of intelligence" could be caused by. I doubt being obese (which could potentially lead to those conditions) is directly causing lower intelligence, but rather the potential side effects of it. Also, these subjects were conveniently in some type of test, so there is inherent (and significant) selection bias.

A more appropriate title for this post would be : "High blood pressure and inflammation might make you stupid."

Edit: Also, it appears you copied this from an out dated article on menshealth.com, this website is owned by an institution that generates income from advertising revenue, their sole purpose is to draw as much income through catchy titles/articles as possible. It is not to provide accurate medical information, it is not a source of information that should be considered "trustworthy." The content is provided for "entertainment purposes" only, as with many media publications.

@MrMazda:

You could call it slut shaming, but that would imply that I am actually ashamed of what happened, when the fact is that it really doesn't bother me anymore.

Sorry, I did consider the implications of my statement when I made it being that you are a slut capable of shame and meant to add a caveat but despite that I stand by my original stance, that statement was slut-shaming even if you are the Virgin Mary who was immaculately seroconverted.

I just like pressing your buttons.  temper, temper.  Let us not be tangential.  The topic is being fat makes you stupid.  :cool2:

You could call it slut shaming, but that would imply that I am actually ashamed of what happened, when the fact is that it really doesn't bother me anymore.

Sorry, I did consider the implications of my statement when I made it being that you are a slut capable of shame and meant to add a caveat but despite that I stand by my original stance, that statement was slut-shaming even if you are the Virgin Mary who was immaculately seroconverted.

The vernacular here is always interesting.  With neologisms like slut-shaming, why bother keeping a dictionary or thesaurus "handy".  :cool2:

Correct me if I am wrong but are you not the same individual who posted the definition of ostensible after I used it in a post correctly as if to imply I had not used the word correctly?

I don't bother keeping a dictionary handy, I have 2 (as well as the old google) because sometimes 1 definition is not enough.

"Only philosophers embark on this perilous expedition to the outermost reaches of language and existence. Some of them fall off, but others cling on desperately and yell at the people nestling deep in the snug softness, stuffing themselves with delicious food and drink. 'Ladies and Gentlemen,' they yell, 'we are floating in space!' But none of the people down there care." -  Jostein Gaarder

@groovedware:

@nordicblue:

Also, the same care that keeps you alive, should have been the same care that prevented it from happening in the first place.

Slut shaming pure and simple.  There should be zero tolerance for this.

You could call it slut shaming, but that would imply that I am actually ashamed of what happened, when the fact is that it really doesn't bother me anymore.

Also, the same care that keeps you alive, should have been the same care that prevented it from happening in the first place.

Slut shaming pure and simple.  There should be zero tolerance for this.

As a side note:  I can self edit but only so many times…

2. It gives you the blues. A 2010 study of 58,000 people found that obesity increases your risk of depression by 55 percent. Blame both physiology and psychology: Obesity causes inflammation, which research has shown can cause depression by damaging the brain’s circuitry. And the not-so-secret culprit? Fast food. According to a 2012 report in Public Health Nutrition, the top 25 percent of fast food eaters are more than 50 percent likely to suffer from depression.

This is a circular thing.

Depression often causes obesity, which leads to more depression.

I may be fat but I can go on a diet and get skinny you can undo stupid and this post and person are way stupid in my book!

"you can undo stupid" sounds pretty stupid "in my book".

Obesity is a horribly serious epidemic.  It increases the cost of health insurance for everyone else, it promotes gluttony and sets a poor precedent for children.  The American First Lady is currently on a crusade to end obesity in the States.

I would concede that you may know how HIV works, but not immunology entirely or else why go to medical school or the doctor.  Secondly, your doctor and drugs like abacavir have kept you alive.  Also, the same care that keeps you alive, should have been the same care that prevented it from happening in the first place.

WOW!! I don't even begin to know where to start with that one. First off, HIV is short for Human Immunodeficiency Virus. (Note the word that is underlined). Simply put, it has everything to do with the immune system. In order to work with it, one must first understand the workings of the immune system. If you don't have any understanding of immunology and the way the immune system works, then you don't stand a chance in hell at managing your health and keeping on top of things. There's more involved to it than just taking the meds actually… much more. For example, eating habits (including how much of what you eat), excercise, and a proper balance of enzimes in your blood stream have a great impact on how one must manage with such things, as they all affect the immune system. And really...?! Abacavir? Are you serious?! That med has long since been placed in the obsolite antique pile of meds, along side AZT, D4T, and 3TC. Just sayin'.... It may be helpful to get some more up to date information.

@nordicblue:

I would concede that you may know how HIV works, but not immunology entirely or else why go to medical school or the doctor.

There is one very simple answer to this question… Within the province of Ontario, without a certificate (license if you will) from the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, one cannot legally practice medicine, and therefore, are not able to do such things as write a prescription for the drugs that are necessary as a part of keeping themselves alive.

It's actually kind of sad to see that at this day and age, there are people out there who believe that you can only know what you know if you have a piece of paper that says so. This is a large part of the "problem" with society, especially given that there are a LOT of people out there who have a plethora of pieces of paper that say that in theory they know what they're talking about, however are complete morons and don't know the first thing about what they're dealing with. By the same token, there are also people who are self-educated, with no official pieces of paper to say that they know what they know who have a much more advanced knowledge of the subjects they have taught themselves than the people with those fancy pieces of paper. It's like saying that a mother who has successfully raised 12 children who all turned out to be successful knows nothing about taking care of or raising a child, simply because she doesn't have a piece of paper that says she knows how to read, write, and regurgitate a "standard" set of information that gets determined by some organization and varies from one region to another.

While on that topic, I suggest that you get all your facts properly before running your mouth. You assume that my contracting HIV was the result of negligence or other such stupidity on my part. Just to set the record straight, I contracted HIV by getting raped. I never asked for someone to infect me with HIV, nor did I go around being careless about my practices to end up infected. In fact, the particular sexual experience that resulted in my HIV infection wasn't exactly consentual. If it were up to me, I would never have had sex with the man who infected me, but when you're backed into a corner and forcibly taken against your will after declining sex several times by someone much bigger and much stronger than you, suddenly, there's no choice in the matter. I will be clear when I say that I never wished to have HIV, and it most certainly was not the reult of my own doing as you seem to imply. So again as I said.... Before you go assuming things, it generaly helps to have all of the facts.

By the same token, I could also ask you the same question. Do you have any fancy piece of paper that says you're "certified" in immunology? For that matter, what "formal" experience or background do you have in the field? It just so happens that I, like most people I know with HIV, have had to keep on top of such material myself in order to best understand how to manage my health, since as I said, a doctor and drugs alone simply aren't enough to keep things in check. To be perfectly blunt, there have even been times when I have actually had to explain things to my doctor for whatever reason, which only further illustrates my pervious point about a fancy piece of paper.

Having HIV for 5 years does not make one an expert in immunology.

It kind of does actually becuase knowing the ins and outs of immunology is kind of a requirement in order to keep yourself alive. If you do knot know enough about the way that the human immune system works when living with HIV, you quite literally set yourself up for a most certain doom. Then again, what would I know? I've only been having to keep myself up to date with such things for the last 5 years becuase my life depends on it :lolp: